PSA re: bolt failures in recent import M-14 pattern rifles

I'm interested in knowing what realistic expectations are for these MIM bolts. Every gun is different, but what are the statistics? 100, 500, 1000, 2000 shots fired and how many are breaking? 5%, 20%, 50%? What happens when the lug breaks? Is it a jam up in the action or do parts fly everywhere?

One of the bolts in the OP was less than 20 rounds when it went “pop”. Another one in that same pic was several hundred rounds.

I have one here for replacement, that is “2 or 3 cases” of ammo old (not my words, that is a quote from the owner), and shows no signs of failure.

I must agree with Claven, it’s a question of when, not “if” these bolts will fail....

John
 
I emailed the retailer of my M14 rifle with the question of “is it safe to shoot?”

The response was that the MIM bolts aren’t as strong but can withstand the pressures required.

The retailer also said that the short rifles (mine is a SOCOM) are over gassed causing oprod peening, and some broken bolts, for the battering of the roller side locking lugs within the op rod - The retailer said they had observed this on return rifles.

The retailer provided me a link on how to turn the gas down on my SOCOM. It looks like the gas system should be left somewhere between gas shut off and the gas open position. They said they believe their theory to be correct as they have yet to get an “adjusted” rifle back.

I’ve had a good relationship with this retailer so they shall go unnamed.

What do you guys think?

I don't think you should believe anything Marstar says.
 
I don't think you should believe anything Marstar says.

I appreciate your input but what I’m looking for is an evaluation of this advice from a technical standpoint.

Can an M14’s gas be adjusted in such a manner? - I’ve not heard of it. I googled adjusting an M-14’s gas system and got links to adjustable aftermarket systems, but no mention of adjustment either formally or as a field expedient.

What do those most familiar with the system say?

Bare with me... I’m very much a trigger puller and not a weapons tec
 
I appreciate your input but what I’m looking for is an evaluation of this advice from a technical standpoint.

Can an M14’s gas be adjusted in such a manner? - I’ve not heard of it. I googled adjusting an M-14’s gas system and got links to adjustable aftermarket systems, but no mention of adjustment either formally or as a field expedient.

What do those most familiar with the system say?

Bare with me... I’m very much a trigger puller and not a weapons tec

My understanding is the adjustment you are talking about is really only two positions, on or off
 
It would make no difference to the forces acting on the bolt when a cartridge is fired.
Unless you file a detent in the gas block for the retaining pin at the half way mark, I can't see it staying put.
That said, you would also be redirecting gas to parts of the gas cylinder that normally don't see gas. Eventually it's going to cause damage to the cast gas cylinder.
The M14 gas system is self regulating already and can handle a wide range of ammo without damaging the rifle.
If Marstar guns are destroying oprods, it's a problem with the oprods...and another reason to avoid them.
This is Marstars gas system solution...
m305b-3.jpg
 
How about this - use the rifle as it's supposed to be used until it batters itself to pieces, and then try to use their ironclad guarantee. Wear eye protection and say your prayers every night that when the MIM bolt lets go, if just jams.
 
A lot of useful info this thread...thanks to everyone that has contributed.

Unfortunately, the m305 that I bought about a year ago (serial # P14###X) has a MIM bolt. So far it's fired flawlessly (not too many rounds through it, maybe ~100-150) but I have decided that I rather not risk it anymore, so went ahead and bought 2 spare forged bolts from older rifles from the EE.

My question is this: both of the replacement bolts I bought fit no problem into my existing rifle...so is it just a simple "plug and play" and I'm good to go? Or do I have to worry about head-spacing, etc. before I can safely fire this rifle with the replacement bolt?
 
I recently bought a forged bolt and discovered that it doesn’t lock into battery. Now it seems I need an armorer to fix it if I want to spend more money on this. Pretty disappointed that the bolt didn’t just “drop in” as was suggested it would.

Has me wondering about the rate of failure of these MIM bolts as well. How many of these bolts are out there? Not every norinco owner comes on these forums, far from it.
 
A lot of useful info this thread...thanks to everyone that has contributed.

Unfortunately, the m305 that I bought about a year ago (serial # P14###X) has a MIM bolt. So far it's fired flawlessly (not too many rounds through it, maybe ~100-150) but I have decided that I rather not risk it anymore, so went ahead and bought 2 spare forged bolts from older rifles from the EE.

My question is this: both of the replacement bolts I bought fit no problem into my existing rifle...so is it just a simple "plug and play" and I'm good to go? Or do I have to worry about head-spacing, etc. before I can safely fire this rifle with the replacement bolt?

You need to decide what you want out of the rifle. If you don't reload, you need to locate a field/reject gauge and either ask someone to check it or google how to do it yourself. Hint - you remove the operating rod and disassemble the bolt to use a gauge.

If you do reload and want to use dies as-intended, then you would want to aim for headspace that is between a SAAMI GO and SAAMI NOGO. this is tighter headspace than a field gauge. Tight headspace is also thought to improve accuracy potential, if you are in to chasing the smallest possible groups.

You COULD adjust your reloading technique to make ammo unique to your rifle that is partially re-sized so that it chambers in a field/reject headspaced rifle, but that ammo would likely not chamber or fire in other .308 rifles.

FWIW, most military M14's left the factory over SAAMI NOGO, but under FIELD/REJECT. This is because they only fired 7.62x51 ammo with thicker bases than commercial brass and the military does not reload. They wanted the extra headspace for improved reliability in challenging field conditions. The Norinco M14 rifles generally ship with headspace more like a GI rifle than a commercial rifle.

When I breech up a new barrel (non-chromed) to a receiver/bolt combo, I set headspace about half way between SAAMI GO and NOGO. This is a great compromise that allows you to use the full spectrum of ammo (.308 and 7.62x51) while tight enough to ensure accuracy and brass life.

So short answer: yes, you need to check headspace and pick the bolt that gives you the best result. Then sell the spare.
 
A lot of useful info this thread...thanks to everyone that has contributed.

Unfortunately, the m305 that I bought about a year ago (serial # P14###X) has a MIM bolt. So far it's fired flawlessly (not too many rounds through it, maybe ~100-150) but I have decided that I rather not risk it anymore, so went ahead and bought 2 spare forged bolts from older rifles from the EE.

My question is this: both of the replacement bolts I bought fit no problem into my existing rifle...so is it just a simple "plug and play" and I'm good to go? Or do I have to worry about head-spacing, etc. before I can safely fire this rifle with the replacement bolt?


Make sure both lugs are engaging. Make sure the bridge is engaging the firing pin's tail properly. And check the headspace. Without checking, you have no idea if the rifle is serviceable or not. Strip the bolt before gauging.
My 305 is an older one. I obtained a TRW bolt from a friend. Bolt went right in. It will barely close on a .308 No Go. Won't accept a Field. I am quite satisfied with this in a semi auto 7.62x51 rifle.
 
Some fun reference info in case anyone wants to dive into the debate on chamber gauges...

SAAMI 308Win:
GO 1.630
NO GO 1.634
FIELD/REJECT 1.638

Canadian military (for the FN C1):
GO 1.6315
NOGO 1.638
FIELD 1.640

7.62NATO (M14 US MILSPEC):
GO 1.6355
NOGO 1.638
FIELD 1.6445

As you can see, US NATO GO is 5.5 thou longer headspace than commercial SAAMI - meaning looser minimum headspace. Similarly, FIELD/REJECT is 6.5 thou longer in the US milspec.

Also interesting, US MILSPEC GO is longer than SAAMI NOGO (!)
 
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I recently bought a forged bolt and discovered that it doesn’t lock into battery. Now it seems I need an armorer to fix it if I want to spend more money on this. Pretty disappointed that the bolt didn’t just “drop in” as was suggested it would.

Has me wondering about the rate of failure of these MIM bolts as well. How many of these bolts are out there? Not every norinco owner comes on these forums, far from it.

Won't go into battery unloaded, or won't chamber a cartridge and lock?
If it is really close on a Go gauge, lapping the lugs may be a remedy.
Failure rate of MIM bolts? Who knows? There are enough reported failures that I wouldn't use one.
 
You need to decide what you want out of the rifle. If you don't reload, you need to locate a field/reject gauge and either ask someone to check it or google how to do it yourself. Hint - you remove the operating rod and disassemble the bolt to use a gauge.

If you do reload and want to use dies as-intended, then you would want to aim for headspace that is between a SAAMI GO and SAAMI NOGO. this is tighter headspace than a field gauge. Tight headspace is also thought to improve accuracy potential, if you are in to chasing the smallest possible groups.

You COULD adjust your reloading technique to make ammo unique to your rifle that is partially re-sized so that it chambers in a field/reject headspaced rifle, but that ammo would likely not chamber or fire in other .308 rifles.

FWIW, most military M14's left the factory over SAAMI NOGO, but under FIELD/REJECT. This is because they only fired 7.62x51 ammo with thicker bases than commercial brass and the military does not reload. They wanted the extra headspace for improved reliability in challenging field conditions. The Norinco M14 rifles generally ship with headspace more like a GI rifle than a commercial rifle.

When I breech up a new barrel (non-chromed) to a receiver/bolt combo, I set headspace about half way between SAAMI GO and NOGO. This is a great compromise that allows you to use the full spectrum of ammo (.308 and 7.62x51) while tight enough to ensure accuracy and brass life.

So short answer: yes, you need to check headspace and pick the bolt that gives you the best result. Then sell the spare.


Wow...thanks for the very detailed and quick answer!!
 
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