PSA re: bolt failures in recent import M-14 pattern rifles
- Thread starter m14medic.ca
- Start date
Milofficer
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
Looks like they already deleted your MIM bolt post. They also deleted my comment about their Kel-Tec RDB Hunters and how they're grey market and not covered under the official warranty.
I don't see how this is ANY different than when M@rst@r was selling unsafely welded bolt lugged fake M1 "Tippo 2" rifles. I think it's EXACTLY the same and CGN should grow some integrity and tell NS to either stop selling them, or to hit the bricks.
Heck, it's the same bolt in the same family of rifles, failing in the same way with the same risk to the shooter. Someone is going to get seriously hurt at some point.
Integrity should have no price - certainly not the price NS pays for the privilege of advertising here.
Hopefully I haven't gone far enough here to get pinked?
Heck, it's the same bolt in the same family of rifles, failing in the same way with the same risk to the shooter. Someone is going to get seriously hurt at some point.
Integrity should have no price - certainly not the price NS pays for the privilege of advertising here.
Hopefully I haven't gone far enough here to get pinked?
hope nobody in the membership gets pinked over this issue.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you posted.
The writing was on the wall when the 18.5" rifles began to show up and due to what I was seeing routinely, I stopped working on these rifles professionally. The latest issues are far beyond what I was seeing a few years ago and these rifle are down right dangerous at this point.
This unfortunately starts with retailers listening to us as shooters and some of us that have more knowledge of these rifles than most. Listening to us and pulling these rifles and sending them back to whoever is importing them.
The m14 type rifles are fantastic fun but the latest offerings from china are straight up dangerous junk.
I agree.
I made a huge stink to NS about these last year when I had issues with my m305 shorty
Even mentioned lawsuit and lawyers to them
What did they do? They inspected my rifle and said “yeah it’s out of spec, here’s a replacement one, mim bolt and all” and “oh if you have an issue with how the bolt is constructed you should take that up with the manufacturer”
NS don’t give two $hits
Like “China” is gonna listen to me
Even mentioned lawsuit and lawyers to them
What did they do? They inspected my rifle and said “yeah it’s out of spec, here’s a replacement one, mim bolt and all” and “oh if you have an issue with how the bolt is constructed you should take that up with the manufacturer”
NS don’t give two $hits
Like “China” is gonna listen to me
Tell them as the importer of this Chinese crap, they ARE considered the manufacturer as far as legal liability and retribution for injuries and damages are considered. At this point there would be no doubt about punitive damages either, since they have been made aware of the safety concerns and choose to sell them anyway.
A complaint to the consumer protection agency showing how often these things blow up would also be a good start to get these off the shelves and back into NS inventory.
A complaint to the consumer protection agency showing how often these things blow up would also be a good start to get these off the shelves and back into NS inventory.
Others have way more knowledge with this platform then I..
But you have bolt lug contact and head space fitting if needed
l did a Norc IDF build, and the TRW bolt would not work with the Norc barrel as it was to far back into the receiver. With the new barrel no problem.
verminaard
CGN Regular
- Location
- SW Bantario
It depends.
In some cases it is pretty well drop and go. In some cases some fitting or lapping may be required. In some cases it just isn’t going to happen.
It could be any of the combination of bolt/barrel/receiver.
It is NEVER drop in and go...…
m14 rifles aren't like AR's where the industry has standardized part dimensions so that they are very common and typical from manufacturer to manufacturer. This enables AR owners to take a more "lego-like" approach to building and swapping bolts
M14 rifles aren't AR's obviously and bolts do not just drop in. A bolt that fits your rifle is not the end of the story.... headspace must be checked, bolt lug contact must be verified. These are not optional steps and if you don't know exactly how to perform these steps you will need a gunsmith with real M14 experience.
Some norinco rifles had too much barrel protrusion into the receiver , these are not good candidates for rebuilding or trying to install a new bolt.
The majority of norinco rifles I have worked with will accept surplus USGI m14 bolts but generally will need to be lapped in for headspace and lug contact
Brand new NOS usgi bolts can sometimes be installed but this should only be done by an expert as "more" lapping is required versus a surplus unit ( like IDF ect) and one must be observant of the limitations of lapping to deep and passing thru the case hardening.
I have had hit and miss results with LRB and Fulton bolts and generally speaking, these are similar to NOS usgi bolts in that they are often not good candidate due to how much must be lapped to get them to fit. I generally only advise using NOS USGI, Fulton or LRB bolts in unison with a new short chambered barrel that will be reamed to final headspace.
word to the wise, if you want to get into the M14 rifle this late in the game? Look for rifles with 2009 and earlier import dates
Friends don't let friends buy unsafe rifles so please pass this info on to all your shooting friends and especially the newbies...… don't buy these new Chinese m14 rifles..... their day in the sun is over.
m14 rifles aren't like AR's where the industry has standardized part dimensions so that they are very common and typical from manufacturer to manufacturer. This enables AR owners to take a more "lego-like" approach to building and swapping bolts
M14 rifles aren't AR's obviously and bolts do not just drop in. A bolt that fits your rifle is not the end of the story.... headspace must be checked, bolt lug contact must be verified. These are not optional steps and if you don't know exactly how to perform these steps you will need a gunsmith with real M14 experience.
Some norinco rifles had too much barrel protrusion into the receiver , these are not good candidates for rebuilding or trying to install a new bolt.
The majority of norinco rifles I have worked with will accept surplus USGI m14 bolts but generally will need to be lapped in for headspace and lug contact
Brand new NOS usgi bolts can sometimes be installed but this should only be done by an expert as "more" lapping is required versus a surplus unit ( like IDF ect) and one must be observant of the limitations of lapping to deep and passing thru the case hardening.
I have had hit and miss results with LRB and Fulton bolts and generally speaking, these are similar to NOS usgi bolts in that they are often not good candidate due to how much must be lapped to get them to fit. I generally only advise using NOS USGI, Fulton or LRB bolts in unison with a new short chambered barrel that will be reamed to final headspace.
word to the wise, if you want to get into the M14 rifle this late in the game? Look for rifles with 2009 and earlier import dates
Friends don't let friends buy unsafe rifles so please pass this info on to all your shooting friends and especially the newbies...… don't buy these new Chinese m14 rifles..... their day in the sun is over.
TacticalTeacher
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Georgian Bay, ON
THIS^^^ sure saves me typing.... 45acpking says it all! Warmest thanks!!
Cheers, Barney
#1bcshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- North Of The DMZ (US border)
What about a 2013 ?
A friend just bought one & I had a look & its not a cast bolt .
What else should we be looking at with that vintage ?
I still have my pre 09 in the E2 set up & love it !
A friend just bought one & I had a look & its not a cast bolt .
What else should we be looking at with that vintage ?
I still have my pre 09 in the E2 set up & love it !
The 2009 rifles is where things started to change as far as norinco parts is concerned.
Johnone from marstar once said that the "good" parts and receivers in china were starting to dry up..... his words if I remember them correctly were that they were hitting the bottom of the barrel when it came to assembling rifles that Johnone would accept for import. As I began to see the rifles imported by businesses other than marstar , after 2009, I began to have problems on the bench , more than the usual Chinese m14 rifles I had seen in the past. Pre 2009 the rifles had well made parts and the issues were mainly poorly machined flash hiders with off axis sight dovetails. Oddly proportioned front sights and many had somewhat generous headspace. Rear sights have always been kinda garbage. Triggers were decent and even better with one of my trigger jobs.... and the most common of all, slightly off index barrels. Here and there we would see odd machining mistakes at the scope mount slot or the windage marks on the rear sights off center.
But pre 2009, usgi parts compatability was very good.
Then after 2009 , things changed and a whole slew of new issues began to show up. Trigger housings that wouldn't accept USGI components correctly, trigger group pin holes drilled off center, odd blemishes on receivers, very loose and poorly tabbed oprods and then enter the cast components discovered in more recent imports...…
I say 2009 and older because those are the rifles I "trust" to not give anyone to many headaches out of the box and are still within a vintage that makes them decent candidates for upgrading.
I should clarify something.
when I say 2009 or older , that's just a personal thing.
There are still decent rifles that were coming in after 09 and some actually really nice ones but by and large since 2009 we have seen a decline. A decline that has hit a whole new low with the recent imports.
when I say 2009 or older , that's just a personal thing.
There are still decent rifles that were coming in after 09 and some actually really nice ones but by and large since 2009 we have seen a decline. A decline that has hit a whole new low with the recent imports.
I got a reply back from my email. NS wants to know whats what and what my first borns mothers maiden name is. I haven't filled out the questions and sent it back yet. im going to assume FA will happen however
I did put up an add for an older norc bolt and hope it will be in the ballpark. had a nice gent offer me one in the PM for 300$ I didn't reply. I do have a USGI TRW here and its no way. wont even start to close, so no way
if anyone reading this has an older norc bolt , im looking but sorry not willing to pay 300
I did put up an add for an older norc bolt and hope it will be in the ballpark. had a nice gent offer me one in the PM for 300$ I didn't reply. I do have a USGI TRW here and its no way. wont even start to close, so no way
if anyone reading this has an older norc bolt , im looking but sorry not willing to pay 300
Last edited:
verminaard
CGN Regular
- Location
- SW Bantario
Yeah, I definitely grossly over simplified that.
“Drop and go”... after checking lug contact and headspace. In my head, I was meaning that no adjustment was required. Measurement, well I just made assumptions on that part. My bad.
Back to the porch for me.
