Q. - diemaco C8A3 vs. colt M4

js168 said:
I think 1% of the CAF can shoot 2 moa in prone unsupported.
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Well what you THINK and what you KNOW are 2 very different things.

I'd did lots of years and on range week on work up trng I have seen many shooters go from 5" groups to 1-1.75" groups. You would be suprised what a motivated individual with a few pallets of ammo at their disposal can accomplish.

I KNOW this as a fact
 
Matt K said:
Colt barrels are required to group 4 MOA or better to pass QC, Diemaco barrels are required to group 2 MOA or better to pass.

An untouched Canadian barrel blank costs more than a completed M4/6920 barrel assembly.

The Canadian barrel is cold hammer forged with an improved chamber, and is choked down at the muzzle for greater accuracy and reliability. The chrome is thicker and different for better wear resistance and cold weather performance.

Also, the Diemaco is made in Canada by Canadians in a factory that makes 600 a month as opposed to an american made gun made in a factory that makes 600 a day.

The SA 15.7 also has the identical hardened steel M203A1 sleeve that is issued to the CF on the C8A3. This tends to dampen barrel harmonics and makes for an extremely accurate rifle.

So you will likely get better accuracy out of the C8 barrel.
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Matt's still alive and kicking I see.
 
Matt K said:
Colt barrels are required to group 4 MOA or better to pass QC, Diemaco barrels are required to group 2 MOA or better to pass.

An untouched Canadian barrel blank costs more than a completed M4/6920 barrel assembly.

The Canadian barrel is cold hammer forged with an improved chamber, and is choked down at the muzzle for greater accuracy and reliability. The chrome is thicker and different for better wear resistance and cold weather performance.

Also, the Diemaco is made in Canada by Canadians in a factory that makes 600 a month as opposed to an american made gun made in a factory that makes 600 a day.

The SA 15.7 also has the identical hardened steel M203A1 sleeve that is issued to the CF on the C8A3. This tends to dampen barrel harmonics and makes for an extremely accurate rifle.

So you will likely get better accuracy out of the C8 barrel.
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Matt, I noticed the muzzle device on the IUR is different than on the SA15.7. Why is that?
 
Break down a Colt Canada BCG and put it back together again. Do the same with the Colt USA BCG. The CC one goes together like Swiss watch parts. It's extremely apparent when you put the bolt back into the Bolt Carrier. I've done this with three CC BCG and a few Colt USA with the same results noted between the two every time. You notice the difference when you take a close look at the two.

The barrel is of course the main difference, but there are other differences.
 
Lets keep this is mind though ok, they are both good quality guns. So is dd, so is kac, so is stag, so is bcm, etc...

And frankly, this might sound really rough and mean, but if you cant shoot a quality rifle well, regardless whether its a sa15.7 or a 6920 you're just not a really good shooter. Thats just the bottom line.

I know this because, well, im a mediocre shooter, but i own some facking amazing guns, doesnt make me a facking amazing shooter!Im still really struggling with my funds with offhand shooting. Like the fack does it matter, if the rifle is 2 moa or 4 moa, im a frigging 8 moa shooter offhand! I'm Working on it, taking classes and such.

The rifles are fine! Its me who sucks!

Now on the other hand, I appreciate fine manufacturing, I work for a manufacturing company, I appreciate a company that knows what the fack they are doing and doesnt try to pass the buck. Thats why I spend a bit more on my guns than say some other overseas stuff or some North Eastern pass the buck stuff, or kel the fack tec stuff. Thats just me, but yah a good shooter with a norc will outshoot me any day any time.

Its tough to admit, but I dont have any problems stating my limitations.
 
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Long story short.

If you're planning to put a lot of rounds down the pipe and hope to keep some accuracy during high round count sessions or plan to have the rifle and put a lot of rounds down the pipe in smaller groups, then get the Colt Canada rifle. If you plan to go easier on the rifle, then save a bit of your money and get the Colt USA rifle.

Also, the Colt Canada barrels will last a helluva lot longer than 20,000 rounds .

-S.
 
js168 said:
I think 1% of the CAF can shoot 2 moa in prone unsupported.
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So will most LE personnel that I've seen in real life with their C8. If you like bench than maybe it's important, otherwise it's nothing more than splitting hair in two. Both will do the job just fine, especially since 95% of CGN population will never have a chance to kill any Colt barrel. They are recreational shooters firing maybe couple of hundred rounds per year.
 
mikethebike said:
Lets keep this is mind though ok, they are both good quality guns. So is dd, so is kac, so is stag, so is bcm, etc...

And frankly, this might sound really rough and mean, but if you cant shoot a quality rifle well, regardless whether its a sa15.7 or a 6920 you're just not a really good shooter. Thats just the bottom line.

I know this because, well, im a mediocre shooter, but i own some facking amazing guns, doesnt make me a facking amazing shooter!Im still really struggling with my funds with offhand shooting. Like the fack does it matter, if the rifle is 2 moa or 4 moa, im a frigging 8 moa shooter offhand! I'm Working on it, taking classes and such.

The rifles are fine! Its me who sucks!

Now on the other hand, I appreciate fine manufacturing, I work for a manufacturing company, I appreciate a company that knows what the fack they are doing and doesnt try to pass the buck. Thats why I spend a bit more on my guns than say some other overseas stuff or some North Eastern pass the buck stuff, or kel the fack tec stuff. Thats just me, but yah a good shooter with a norc will outshoot me any day any time.

Its tough to admit, but I dont have any problems stating my limitations.
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This is the truth, for all shooters - but stating this publicly is the difference between a man and a boy, regardless of chronological age. Like the movie guy said, "a man's got to know his limitations"
 
From a practical stand point, the difference between the C8A3 and the LE6920 is 1Lb of weight in the barrel, and a lot of the weight in C8A3 barrel sits on the last 4" of the barrel ( the sleeve) .

If you are looking for running and gunning, the LE6920 is a better choice. Think of this, every time you move the rifle, it is like swinging a sledge hammer. You are only allowed to grab less than half of the full length of the handle, it is going to be much harder to start and stop the swing of a hammer that has both a bigger head and a heavier handle. This translates to carbine that is slower to point and and slower to transverse.

If you are looking to go prone or to put down some serious fire behind a supported position, the C8A3 is a better choice as you can take advantage of the heavy barrel in better sustained fire.
 
I keep saying it, but all of the RCMP Carbine operators I know prefer my 6920. And the main reason is what Greentips said. It's much faster to point. On the RCMP guns that's the barrel as well as the IUR that was not needed.

As well, knowing that the all the CC uppers and lowers that aren't IURs are coming from the same Cerro Forge in the U.S. anyway, it makes me wonder what parts are actually Canadian other than the barrel. And because of that, I'll buy a DD barrel as it's made the same anyway and they are available. Also, currently I can get a Colt USA barrel off IRunGuns for 139 U.S. so if I buy a spare I've got longer barrel life anyway. Accuracy wise, if the RCMP rifles are of any indication a) shooter matters more anyway b) between the CC guns and mine, my Colt USA outshot all 3 CC rifles...

Colt Canada cool aid is strong stuff.
 
CreamySmooth said:
And the main reason is what Greentips said. It's much faster to point. On the RCMP guns that's the barrel as well as the IUR that was not needed.
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That's why I didn't get one of the SA15.7s when they were out, as much as I wanted one. I know they're accurate, the craftmanship that goes into the barrels in particular fascinates me, but that barrel profile just makes no sense. The ones I handled felt heavier than my C7, which defeats the purpose of having a carbine. It just makes no sense to me. I knew if I bought one, I'd just sit there resenting it. It'd come out when I wanted to show friends what the Forces uses, but I don't think I'd actually shoot it much.

If they made their pencil-barreled C8s or C8A1s, I'd snap that up in a heartbeat.
 
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