Question about AR15 being made full auto
- Thread starter JRW (QOR)
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Um... no.
As someone who has a lot of smithing experience with both AR15's and the C7 platform and has actually fitted and used a DIAS in the states, I have to call BS.
There is NO WAY and AR with standard semi-auto fire control parts can go full-auto by swapping a bolt carrier. Period.
Oh, and bump-fire is NOT full-auto. I can make an AR15 simulate full-auto with a light touch on a smooth military trigger and the right grip technique, but it is not really full-auto.
I am assuming he is referring to a lightning link. The "right bolt carrier" he is referring to is an SP1 bolt carrier with the square cut notch on the back end. I don't consider something that take at least an hour or two to build and fit "easy". In my mind, "easy" is like a mini 14 and a shoe lace. For not too much more time than building a lightning link, a DIAS could be built that would probably last longer. It would require a few more parts though.
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its a stupid discussion to have anyway
one could make a dildo into a tatoo machine and tatoo hate speech FFS , yeah but it makes about as much sense as the original argument
you could probably make anything automatic it would be illegal
you could make just about anything into a bomb ! it would be illegal
No law will prevent you or anyone else from doing something illegal !
don't argue with stoopid ! its contagious!!!!
one could make a dildo into a tatoo machine and tatoo hate speech FFS , yeah but it makes about as much sense as the original argument
you could probably make anything automatic it would be illegal
you could make just about anything into a bomb ! it would be illegal
No law will prevent you or anyone else from doing something illegal !
don't argue with stoopid ! its contagious!!!!
Bingo!
And as for the "lighting link", for starters you need a low-shelf lower and an SP1 BCG which is not exactly common. Then you need to add a prohibited part to the rifle that is not commonly available. So you are breaking TWO federal laws by trying to go that route. 1) converting a rifle into a prohibited firearm and 2) possession of a prohibited device.
Thanks, but I value not going to jail over a cheap-o unreliable piece of sheet metal. If you are going to go to jail for being a idiot-thug, you might as well go full retard and use a proper DIAS and select-fire control group which takes about the same time to make and install as that POS.
And for the record, while we are discussing stupid things idiots can do, you can convert almost ANY semi-auto rifle into a reliable bump-firing rifle (simulated full auto) with a pencil and a rubber band if you know how. Next thing the antis will add rubber bands to the list of things you cannot possess if you own guns.
PS: for those who care, once upon a time I had access to some surplus M16 fire control groups. I installed them all into AR15 guns after machining the disconnector tail and they worked just fine without an auto-sear or DIAS and would not go F/A. If you ever do this, it's important not to forget to machine those disconnector tails off - regardless if you go the auto-sear route or not. What you might get is NOT controlled full-auto and is decidedly a bad idea.
My understanding is NEA learned the same lesson on their first few guns when they used to ship M16 fire control groups with AR15 notched hammers. I'm sure a few early testers were on the surprised side when they first loaded more than one in the mag.
My understanding is NEA learned the same lesson on their first few guns when they used to ship M16 fire control groups with AR15 notched hammers. I'm sure a few early testers were on the surprised side when they first loaded more than one in the mag.
it's really flattering that you want to impress the members here with your "knowledge" of ARs but talking about stuff like illegaly modifying rifles is #1 bad for the community and #2 makes you look like thug that will damage the reputation of legal firearms owners. Just because some hillbilly on the interweb says it can be easily done, doesn't make it so.
dangertree
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I am sorry but this is totally incorrect. The only difference between a semi and full auto bolt carrier is about an extra .5sec on the machine to mill out the auto sear trip portion on the underside of the carrier. That is it. All semi-auto BCG start as full-auto BGC. The semi auto BGC is semi auto because it wont trip the auto sear of a FA lower.
Hope that clarifiies for you.
I didn't say any NEA rifles were full-auto. I said the first few rifles they built slam-fired uncontrollably until they switched to semi-auto disconnectors. Which is a fact, not slander. And it's not meant as an indictment of NEA.
*******************************. I never declared my "knowledge" on the AR-15 platform, and I can freely admit that I have only disassembled a couple of them and handled a total of 10 maybe. I have never fired one as shooting one at 50 yards indoors isn't my idea of a good time, and having a rifle that I can't take into the woods with me is useless. As is right now the AR is more fun to see how it works and the design ideas behind it than actually using one in canada.
That being said, I'm not trying to impress anyone on here, because if I don't know someone I don't give a rats arse about them, I was simply replying to the original person's question. As I stated all the information was out there including a nice video description of how the thing worked. I just didn't want to spell it out because there are plenty of people out there with just enough intelligence to use a dremel, cut out a piece of sheet metal into that shape, and try to put it in their gun, without knowing anything about it (If I weed out the people too retarded to properly use google search, I've already done all I can to prevent idiots from trying it). At that point it doesn't matter if it works or not, they get caught trying it they get busted and they have another reason to reclassify your favourite toys.
So feel free to have the last word and inflate your post count as much as you want by replying to me but this is the last time I even acknowledge your existence on this forum. As smarter people on this forum have said in this thread "don't argue with stoopid ! its contagious!!!!" I'll take that advice.
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Trigger function or malfunction has nothing to do with slam-fire. Slam fire occurs when a non-spring loaded firing pin, like the AR hits the primer hard enough to set it off. Typically this is a primer problem and not a rifle problem.
I'm not familiar with any early problems with the NEA triggers but whatever it was it wasn't a slam-fire.
If the hammer was following the carrier forward that is another issue.
I have once seen a semi-auto AR function as a reasonably reliable FA without the inclusion of any FA parts. It was due to an error in the trigger group, which I will not describe for obvious reasons. Note, this did not occur in an NEA rifle.
I am somewhat shocked a the general lack of understanding of the basic function of the AR trigger and its FA cousin. These things are relatively simple mechanisms.
I hate to nit-pick, but you should really double check that
I believe it was Ned Christiansen who made a cut away AR15 to show that the lugs would be in full lock-up before the firing pin was able to ignite the primer.
I'll have to see if I can find the picture he posted.
Slam fire is a different story though. And hammer follow can cause it in certain circumstances.
Added
this isn't the cutaway I was looking for but it will do; if you look at the cam slot, you will see a how there is a short 'straight' portion at the rear. The bolt has to rotate fully before it can go straight back and it's not until it moves into the straight portion (after it's rotated) that the firing pin starts to protrude from the bolt face.
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I'm not saying a slam fire can't happen, but the bolt will be in battery when it happens. How far do you think the firing pin extends from the bolt face upon full lock up? Why do you think that 'straight' section is there in the cam slot? It was designed that way to prevent the possibility of firing out of battery. Same as on the XCR bolt.
As far as looking up Ka-booms, they don't prove anything. Most people mistake case failures and over pressure rounds with out of battery explosions due to lack of knowledge on how the gun works/and is designed.
Since AR15s are gas operated, as soon as the bullet passes the gas port, the barrel starts to unlock, regardless of what the pressure is in the barrel. The gun doesn't say "uh oh!! pressure is too high, I better not unlock", lol. The over pressure can cause the lugs to fail before unlocking, or the over pressure gas vents into the receiver through the failed case and things become catastrophic. Occasionally the gas vents into the carrier and causes the carrier to split as well. The thing to also remember is one the gas causes the bolt to unlock, it's now out of battery. So while I suppose it could be argued that at this point it is an 'out of battery' explosion, it's not an out of battery ignition (or OOB firing).
The cam pin doesn't touch the upper (or it's not supposed to), it solely contacts the bolt/carrier. So I'm not sure what you mean. <--------Added - I was mistaken on this statement
As far as looking up Ka-booms, they don't prove anything. Most people mistake case failures and over pressure rounds with out of battery explosions due to lack of knowledge on how the gun works/and is designed.
Since AR15s are gas operated, as soon as the bullet passes the gas port, the barrel starts to unlock, regardless of what the pressure is in the barrel. The gun doesn't say "uh oh!! pressure is too high, I better not unlock", lol. The over pressure can cause the lugs to fail before unlocking, or the over pressure gas vents into the receiver through the failed case and things become catastrophic. Occasionally the gas vents into the carrier and causes the carrier to split as well. The thing to also remember is one the gas causes the bolt to unlock, it's now out of battery. So while I suppose it could be argued that at this point it is an 'out of battery' explosion, it's not an out of battery ignition (or OOB firing).
The cam pin doesn't touch the upper (or it's not supposed to), it solely contacts the bolt/carrier. So I'm not sure what you mean. <--------Added - I was mistaken on this statement
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FOUND THE PICS!!!!
Here is the link http://www.m4ca rbine.net/showpost.php?p= 358709&postcount=99
Mechanically impossible for the firing pin to extend past the bolt face until the bolt is rotated to full lock up.
These are pictures of Ned Cristiansen's cut away AR15 showing how the firing pin cannot extend past the bolt face without being in full lock up. The hammer is resting on the firing pin, holding it as far forward as possible.
First picture is the carrier fully forward and the bolt in full lock up.
Second pic is the bolt still rotated in full lock up but with the carrier extended backwards the length of the 'straight' section in the cam slot
As you can see. It cannot make physical contact.
Here is the link http://www.m4ca rbine.net/showpost.php?p= 358709&postcount=99
Mechanically impossible for the firing pin to extend past the bolt face until the bolt is rotated to full lock up.
These are pictures of Ned Cristiansen's cut away AR15 showing how the firing pin cannot extend past the bolt face without being in full lock up. The hammer is resting on the firing pin, holding it as far forward as possible.
First picture is the carrier fully forward and the bolt in full lock up.
Second pic is the bolt still rotated in full lock up but with the carrier extended backwards the length of the 'straight' section in the cam slot
As you can see. It cannot make physical contact.
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