Question about the Antique papers from the RCMP

[skneub]

Which letter, their own or .41colts?

In the case of the one done by .41colt their interpretation has no affect as that is a direct quote of the law, with the only addendum to include the antique that you're carrying. The law hasn't changed, just their interpretation, and the lab is relying on people not having the resources to challenge their opinion.

In the case of it affecting their own letter then yes it has as they have now shown their hand to have multiple ways out of it and not honouring the antique letter, all of which I have personally experienced since the changes in interpretation.

• The main excuse for not honouring letters is that the lab has changed from working under Firearms Technology Unit (FTU-L) to the Specialized Firearms Support Services (SFSS). This apparently allows them to say that any decisions made under the direction of the FTU were wrong and that new decisions made by the SFSS are correct. The interesting part here is the SFSS retains many, if not all, of the same employees of the FTU that made the classifications in the first place.
  
  The SFSS is the lab responsible for the changes in interpretation, and changes to some FRT #'s.
• They have also used the "based on the information that you supplied" portion of the letter to disregard letters obtained by the previous owners. Meaning that they can disregard letters by saying that something was provided incorrectly at time of obtaining the letter, and they don't have to reveal what the problem information was.
• They do not consider previous letters to be precedent.
  
  For example if the SFSS has done their job correct to the wording of the law in the past and lettered a converted antique they will not allow that letter to be used as precedent for a new letter. Even though the letter comes from the same lab so they have no change of lab excuse such as the change from FTU to SFSS.
• Certain published resources that were once considered as proof by both the FTU and SFSS are now no longer interpreted as being good enough to obtain or honour previous issued letters.

Now that list I just made may seem off topic to this thread, but it's very relevant. To the OP and those reading this I say avoid the letter and contact with the SFSS at all costs. They've shown their hand that they will not honour letters issued by their department and are only using it as a tracking resource of how many antiques are in the country and who the original letter applicant was.

For those about to say "but they can't prove if I sold it" I would highly suggest you learn up on computer forensics. Also you saying that you sold something will never stop a warrant from being issued and used to search the premisses of the original owner.

RCMP SFSS issued antique letters are worthless, and in the case of wilderness carry I'd rather take extra toilet paper into the bush as it's value far exceeds the antique letter, even after use if you know what I'm saying. Learn up on your choice of antique, make your own letter quoted from the law like .41colts, and carry printouts of hard copy published works. All of which carry more value than a letter that is proven to not be honoured by the division that issued it.

Again I say; avoid contact with the SFSS and don't apply for antique letters. They're nothing but a waste of taxpayer resources and a form of tracking the antique (aka backdoor registry).

Thank you
This is also a great service

 

[DOOK]

Thanks for the clarification.
Can you recap exactly what the new changes are?
I was a little confused by it, and distracted by the other two big changes slipped in to draw attention away from the antique situation.

 

[Hoplite Tactical Supplies]

Thanks for the clarification.
Can you recap exactly what the new changes are?
I was a little confused by it, and distracted by the other two big changes slipped in to draw attention away from the antique situation.

Keep in mind these are only changes to interpretation of the law, and not the law itself. However CBSA is honouring these interpretations as law at the border.

Basic recap;

• Altered caliber antiques must have been manufactured in an acceptable antique caliber. Factory documented proof must be available and provided in order to obtain a letter. For now in absence of proof, or if the factory letter turns up nothing, they seem to be honouring the law and issuing letters (this may be closed soon with the reasoning that people are using the absence of proof to obtain a letter that they otherwise wouldn't issue).
• Certain FRT #'s were altered to reflect the status off of original chambering.
• The definition of antique firearm at RCMP website has been updated to say "Any firearm manufactured before 1898 that was not designed to discharge rim-fire or centre-fire ammunition, and that has not been re-designed to discharge such ammunition". This definition is being upheld by CBSA at the border and confiscations are occurring off of this new interpretation, and charges being recommended by CBSA.

I'm sure I missed something that anyone else can feel free to add. Also included into that recap is the above list I posted in post #20 in how they are now treating antique status letters.

Again please note, this is an interpretation of the law and changing of the wording on the RCMP website to fit this interpretation, and not the actual wording or the law itself.

 

[DOOK]

"The definition of antique firearm at RCMP website has been updated to say "Any firearm manufactured before 1898 that was not designed to discharge rim-fire or centre-fire ammunition, and that has not been re-designed to discharge such ammunition". This definition is being upheld by CBSA at the border and confiscations are occurring off of this new interpretation, and charges being recommended by CBSA."

So, does this mean if it wasn't designed to fire safety cartridges, and now does, it isn't antique?
Also, does "manufactured in an acceptable antique calibre" mean that individual gun as it came from the factory, or just that model was available in an acceptable calibre?

 

[Hoplite Tactical Supplies]

So, does this mean if it wasn't designed to fire safety cartridges, and now does, it isn't antique?

That's only the opinion of the SFSS and not the law. The law is still the same in spite of what the SFSS would like it to be.

Also, does "manufactured in an acceptable antique calibre" mean that individual gun as it came from the factory, or just that model was available in an acceptable calibre?

Again this is only the opinion of the SFSS and not the law. However they interpret it as the individual gun as it came from the factory. For example a Colt SAA that was manufactured prior to 1898 and started life as .45colt and is now .44spl is in their opinion not antique, but a SAA that was of the same manufacture date and started life as .41colt and is now .44spl is in their opinion antique.

Unfortunately I get the feeling this will eventually have to be settled in court to reign them in. The law allows for converted antiques, their lab agreed and set and upheld the precedent, and now they've changed their minds.

As I said in post #20 and feel it's worthy of repeating to all those reading this; avoid contact with the SFSS and don't apply for antique letters. It's due to the rise of popularity in antiques and the amount of contact the FTU got that they were incorporated into SFSS and given new directive. Stop all contact with them and boycott the letter system and hopefully it will stop justifying their jobs and re-interpretation of the law.

 

[dingus]

"The definition of antique firearm at RCMP website has been updated to say "Any firearm manufactured before 1898 that was not designed to discharge rim-fire or centre-fire ammunition, and that has not been re-designed to discharge such ammunition". This definition is being upheld by CBSA at the border and confiscations are occurring off of this new interpretation, and charges being recommended by CBSA."

So, does this mean if it wasn't designed to fire safety cartridges, and now does, it isn't antique?
Also, does "manufactured in an acceptable antique calibre" mean that individual gun as it came from the factory, or just that model was available in an acceptable calibre?

No thats confuseing as hell it needs to have the No Go Cartridge lists after the wording to understand as its hard enough to understand in the first place.

"Any firearm manufactured before 1898 that was not designed or altered to discharge rim-fire or centre-fire ammunition on the No go cartridge list like 45 colt 44 40 Ect Ect is not a perscribed antique"

Nothing has changed for guns made before 1898 that are chambered in Cartridges that are not on the list.
the No list has not changed.
Im laymans terms that most of us can understand think of it like this.
If the pre 1898 gun was made in a OK cartridge like say 11mm and its now 45 acp its still ok.
If the pre 1898 handgun was made in 45 colt or any No Cartridge on that stupid list and was changed to 45 acp or 455 webley then its not antique according to the RCMP which makes no sence to most of us besides with saa colts theres no way to tell what cartridge they were made in when they left the factory in most cases with guns that were reblued or redone or just plain worn out and the barrels changed and the cylinder might be in a diffrent cartridge. alot can happen to a gun in 130 years and a gun that is so easy to change the barrels and cylinders on thats gona be hard to say what they were in most cases.
The RCMP are saying this it is not what the laws say its there new way of twisting things around.

You do not need a rcmp antique letter to own and use antiques .
I use 41 Colts letters all the time there really a better letter.
I only get RCMP Letters on certin guns that are confuseing to date because they were made both pre and post 1898 like the S&W DAs for example for people who want them when there buying a gun. but you do not need that rcmp letter to own a antique handgun.

 

[Rman]

So...maybe a silly question, but this seems as clear as mud with the recent changes.
Is a Remington 1858 with a conversion cylinder in 45 Schofield still an antique? And no, the Schofield cylinder will not chamber a 45 Colt.

Thanks!

R.

 

[dingus]

So...maybe a silly question, but this seems as clear as mud with the recent changes.
Is a Remington 1858 with a conversion cylinder in 45 Schofield still an antique? And no, the Schofield cylinder will not chamber a 45 Colt.

Thanks!

R.

Your good to go if its and original remy 1858 not a repo one..
Yes its antique as long as it wont chamber and shoot a 45 colt. 45 schofield is not on the list.
Everyone who collects and shoots antiques should just have a copy of that stupid list and tape it to there desk.

Check it might fire 455 fiochhi to and be more accurate as the bores on them 1858s were like .454 so unless your reloading .454 lead bullets in your 45 schofield the 455 HB webley bullets might shoot alot better being as there .455 in Dia.
You can load .455 bullets in your 45 schofield cases to. that would even be better as the case is longer than 455 fiochhi.
this is all assumeing the bore in the 1858 is original and if it is i bet its like .454

 

[Rman]

Thank you for the information!

R.

 

[connexion123]

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