Question for 9mm shooters in IPSC open division

Glock_2010 said:
Looking at the Tanfoglio Gold Custom Eric 2007, is it a good first open pistol to go for?

I am well set up for my CZ Shadow for Production. If switch to open, is all I need is another race holster that fit and load the ammo much hotter, thats it?

Any good source loading data for 9mm Major?
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If you go this route, don't get the large frame version for 9mm. It won't run.
The large frames run great in .38 super (round nose bullets only), but you will need the small frame version if you want to use 9mm.

In my view, there really isn't as much up side to the 9mm option in Canada as there may be in the U.S. While some guns do run fine many more do not, and with 9mm major any way you slice it you are narrowing the window of funtionality/reliabilty.

In terms of brass costs, I look at it this way: with 9mm major loads you basically blow the case out after one, maybe two reloads at most so you tend to shoot it once and leave it on the ground. So you will have a perpetual supply issue unless you are lucky enough to have your own personal pipeline to tap. Most of us don't so that becomes a bit of a pain. With .38 Super(comp) you can get several reloads out of your brass with no problems and you will have consistent case head dimensions...unlike 9mm brass so feeding/extraction/ejection isn't a problem. So if you amortize the initial cost of the brass over say, 5 or 6 loadings you are paying pretty much the same price as 9mm, but you are gaining a lot in terms of reliability and load development options. My match brass (leave on the ground) usually has 5 loads or more on it.

For those out there who are using 9mm major and having good luck with it, this is not meant to be a slag. From wide observation my view is that you either got lucky with the fit of your gun, or you are lucky AND you have one of those crazy side-mounted scopes. Personally, I can't deal with one of those things. For me it would be like mounting a mail box on the side of my gun and then trying to see around it on transitions. Just not my thing but if it works for you....
 
relliott said:
If you go this route, don't get the large frame version for 9mm. It won't run.
The large frames run great in .38 super (round nose bullets only), but you will need the small frame version if you want to use 9mm.

In my view, there really isn't as much up side to the 9mm option in Canada as there may be in the U.S. While some guns do run fine many more do not, and with 9mm major any way you slice it you are narrowing the window of funtionality/reliabilty.

In terms of brass costs, I look at it this way: with 9mm major loads you basically blow the case out after one, maybe two reloads at most so you tend to shoot it once and leave it on the ground. So you will have a perpetual supply issue unless you are lucky enough to have your own personal pipeline to tap. Most of us don't so that becomes a bit of a pain. With .38 Super(comp) you can get several reloads out of your brass with no problems and you will have consistent case head dimensions...unlike 9mm brass so feeding/extraction/ejection isn't a problem. So if you amortize the initial cost of the brass over say, 5 or 6 loadings you are paying pretty much the same price as 9mm, but you are gaining a lot in terms of reliability and load development options. My match brass (leave on the ground) usually has 5 loads or more on it.

For those out there who are using 9mm major and having good luck with it, this is not meant to be a slag. From wide observation my view is that you either got lucky with the fit of your gun, or you are lucky AND you have one of those crazy side-mounted scopes. Personally, I can't deal with one of those things. For me it would be like mounting a mail box on the side of my gun and then trying to see around it on transitions. Just not my thing but if it works for you....
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Thanks Rob, all I am researching for is a out of the box open pistol[my first open pistol] in the range of CAD2500 - $3500. Need not to be a Tanfoglio. But if Tanfoglio is ok,all I need to add on is a C-more sight,thumb rest and a slide racker. Then all I have to worry about is the ammo. I have a small hand. Any good recommandation? Is Trubor a good one for the first timer. I think the one Josko had build for you is way more expensive,right. And any good source for the 9mm Major and 38 Super load Data? THanks.
 
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I have shot 38 super, 9x40, and now I am moving to 9mm major.

I have not experienced any problems that have been mentioned in this thread.

I have been torture testing the same lot of brass to see how many reloads that I can get out of it. I have reloaded the brass three times so far, with no issues. I am seeing no pressure signs on the load. Going to load it for the fourth time and head again this weekend.

My current load is:

6.8 grains of longshot
1.170 overall length
170 Power Factor

The load is very soft and accurate.

Going to continue to experiment and try some other powders.

Will keep you informed to the progress.

DVC
 
DVC1911 said:
I have shot 38 super, 9x40, and now I am moving to 9mm major.

I have not experienced any problems that have been mentioned in this thread.

I have been torture testing the same lot of brass to see how many reloads that I can get out of it. I have reloaded the brass three times so far, with no issues. I am seeing no pressure signs on the load. Going to load it for the fourth time and head again this weekend.

My current load is:

6.8 grains of longshot
1.170 overall length
170 Power Factor

The load is very soft and accurate.

Going to continue to experiment and try some other powders.

Will keep you informed to the progress.

DVC
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Please do:)
 
By the way, the bullets are I am using for testing are Aim Projectiles. I am getting really good accuracy results. When the weather gets a little better I am going to test the gun out to 50m and see how it performs.

DVC
 
I still don't understand this debate after all these many years. I shot .38 super back in the day, and the gun ran flawlessly. Custom built on a Springfield frame with a comp. I saw lots of guys running 9mm major, and
9x21, pushing lots of powder, making lots of noise, and I saw lots of guns malfunctioning on a regular basis. I didn't get it then and I don't get it now.

The .38 super was/is a great cartridge but seemed to get pushed aside as the .40 began to gain popularity. I dunno... certainly no scientific analysis on my part but I know what worked, and your brass lasts for several loadings vs. what I am reading of 1 or 2 with 9mm major. Let's resurrect the .38 Super and be done with it. :D

Peace
 
peacefrog said:
I still don't understand this debate after all these many years. I shot .38 super back in the day, and the gun ran flawlessly. Custom built on a Springfield frame with a comp. I saw lots of guys running 9mm major, and
9x21, pushing lots of powder, making lots of noise, and I saw lots of guns malfunctioning on a regular basis. I didn't get it then and I don't get it now.

The .38 super was/is a great cartridge but seemed to get pushed aside as the .40 began to gain popularity. I dunno... certainly no scientific analysis on my part but I know what worked, and your brass lasts for several loadings vs. what I am reading of 1 or 2 with 9mm major. Let's resurrect the .38 Super and be done with it. :D

Peace
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I do know that many things have changed in the past few years to make 9mm major more attractive.

1. The availability of brass. Since the US tightened up on exports of reloading components, it has become very hard to obtain brass at times, and when it is available, it is often costly. When all the components are increasing in value, people look for ways to cut down on the overall cost of reloading. One area where you can save is in brass.

2. Laziness. Once, there was a time when every shooter was hunched over in the rain looking for every last shiny, copper coloured piece of metal lying around in the dirt. With so many more people switching over to cheap, once fired 9mm and .40 cal brass in Production and Standard Division, there are fewer people picking up brass. Now it seems that Open shooters are the only ones out there picking brass, and when you're looking for a handful of casings in a sea of leftover .40 and 9mm, it becomes very difficult to find. It's far easier to say, "Awww screw it. There's $20 I don't need back".

3. Change in menality. More shooters would rather not do any work at all, including picking their own brass. Other activities occupy their time. Planning their run, talking with other people, or conserving energy out of the hot sun/pouring rain.

Honestly, I don't know why we don't just declare all matches lost brass matches and be done with it. :D
 
I have an Eric Gold in 9 Major. It is a nice shooting gun. Very Accurate. I use range brass and I do not bother to reload them more than 3-4 times.

- no issue with primer pocket
- no issue about extraction
- can shoot 9 mm Luger ammo - no problem with same recoil spring
- I use only 124 grain RN FMJ - no plated bullet
- crimp is the same as 9 Luger -
- My load are all compressed powder load

Advantage over 38 Super : cheap brass -no ejection problems - very reliable - use any 9 CZ mag ( they are cheaper too ) . I had many 38 Super racegun and will no go back to that caliber. No need for it.

Most racer if not all racers use Supercomp brass - rimless because of reliability issue with the .38 super rimmed brass. This is not imaginary - .38 super as know reliability issue and is dropped dead from IPSC. If you do not live in the US..shooting 38 Supercomp in an expensive proposition.

The converted OPEN Glock are also popular in 9 major and an alternative to the 1911/2011 platform.

9 Major is VERY popular in the USA.
 
Janeau said:
I have an Eric Gold in 9 Major. It is a nice shooting gun. Very Accurate. I use range brass and I do not bother to reload them more than 3-4 times.

- no issue with primer pocket
- no issue about extraction
- can shoot 9 mm Luger ammo - no problem with same recoil spring
- I use only 124 grain RN FMJ - no plated bullet
- crimp is the same as 9 Luger -
- My load are all compressed powder load

Advantage over 38 Super : cheap brass -no ejection problems - very reliable - use any 9 CZ mag ( they are cheaper too ) . I had many 38 Super racegun and will no go back to that caliber. No need for it.

Most racer if not all racers use Supercomp brass - rimless because of reliability issue with the .38 super rimmed brass. This is not imaginary - .38 super as know reliability issue and is dropped dead from IPSC. If you do not live in the US..shooting 38 Supercomp in an expensive proposition.

The converted OPEN Glock are also popular in 9 major and an alternative to the 1911/2011 platform.

9 Major is VERY popular in the USA.
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I had a 9mm top end for my Gold custom, and could not make it run reliably. Neither could anyone else I know of who tried it, but you may indeed have one that just magically works. But it's really a crap-shoot and if I was thinking about dropping 4K on a race gun I would prefer to go with something that is widely proven and save myself the stress of possibly having to screw around for a year trying to get it to run. The large frame mags aren't set up for the shorter 9mm case; they release too early, and I just didn't have time to mess endlessly with it. The small frame versions of the Gold Custom are however designed around the 9mm round, so the mags will feed them just fine.

Note that these are generally very accurate guns. Tack drivers actually.
Advantages of .38 Supercomp:
Reliabilty
Reliabilty
Reliabilty
Wider choice of powders
Reliabilty and finally....
Reliabilty
 
9mm or 38supercomp?

If you are serious and want to win you will shoot 38 supercomp.

2 reasons 1/ reliability of ejection regardless of mag capaicty
2/ feed reliabilty in hi cap to compete outside of Canada ( 9mm requires a curved mag once the capacity gets up to 30, 38 supercomp is straight wall)

If you are not planning to shoot outside Canada you are not serious.

You can always shoot 9mm in your practice gun or barrel and 38Supercomp for real competition ( the cost of 500 spercomp cases is nothing compared to travel cost and major match fees)

If you are not serious it does not matter what you shoot.

Been there done that!
 
9x25 said:
That's why I'm interested going 9mm:D and I can't afford to do that with 38 super comp
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Yes, but as noted above the brass I leave on the ground at matches has been reloaded many times, so it costs out pretty much the same as 9mm. But even if it works out to one or two cents difference per piece it's worth it to get proven reliability. Nothing sucks worse than spending a boat load of cash and taking time off work to go to a major match only to have your gun start jamming on you. Been there, done that. Messes too much with my cool.
 
9x25 said:
That's why I'm interested going 9mm:D and I can't afford to do that with 38 super comp
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I shot a fair number of matches last year. My total outlay for 38 supercomp brass was $300 CAD, and I didn't pick up a lot of my brass.

$300 a year should not be the deciding factor in your choice to go 9mm or 38 supercomp.
 
hungrybeagle said:
I shot a fair number of matches last year. My total outlay for 38 supercomp brass was $300 CAD, and I didn't pick up a lot of my brass.

$300 a year should not be the deciding factor in your choice to go 9mm or 38 supercomp.
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Well said. Most people would spend more on gas going to a match than the cost of their brass. I guess now I said that they will buy a hybrid:D
 
I have a solution that may work for me. I have thought of going to open division but I don't have the time to reload/tweak/test/reload/pray it works .38 super/9mm major loads. STI makes a open gun shooting 9 x 19 minor (Steel Master). Competing in open with a minor power factor load would put me at a disadvantage. Unless I shoot all alpha :cool:. I may do it next year regardless.
 
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