You mean PC Carbines? The PC9 is a different rifle and is no longer in production.
question for pistol cal fans...
- Thread starter Claven2
- Start date
You mean PC Carbines? The PC9 is a different rifle and is no longer in production.
One of the ones I had and never warmed up to was the Kriss. I always thought it was very cool and exotic looking, and reading about its innovative design made me want one even more. What a huge disappointment! If it had been spitting out .223cal bullets I would have been in love...but getting 9mm performance out of something that big, long, heavy and generally unwieldy was a major letdown. It's one of those guns you hope your buddy buys so you can play with it periodically, but you sure don't want one yourself.
Otherwise I think E7 has nailed down the pros and cons beautifully. Epoxy, is your NR Beretta an aftermarket conversion? I have one that is (done by Epps many years ago), and mine has a slightly heavier barrel profile than the original, but yours is even beefier. Looks good. And thanks for the perspective on the HiPoint. Frontier Firearms is supposed to be getting them (NR) in February, and I have my name on their list...but every time I fire the Beretta I wonder what on earth I need the HiPoint for?
Oh, by the way Claven...the PC9 is not as ugly as a Nylon 66! I sort of like the 66, in fact I have ever since I was a youngster reading the Remington ads for it. No, the PC9 is much worse than that...it's actually as ugly as the old Rem Viper! Anyone who can remember that POS knows how bad that is.
Thanks jjohnwm. My Storm is an aftermarket conversion. It was done by bits and pieces in Delta BC. I had this done a long time ago. I seem to recall the total cost for the conversion and non restricted status was about $500-550. I noticed a few later on versions done by them had heavy, fluted barrels. If nothing else they looked even cooler.
That was the conclusion I came to with the Hi-point as well. The Beretta is the better option.
The other thing I should mention is that there are some really good deals out there right now (Edit: Correction there used to be some really good deals, looking a bit sparce right now) on the CX4 Storm in restricted. I ended up buying my restricted one because it was such a good deal I couldn't pass it up. If I were to convert it, I would still be cheaper than the factory non restricted but with the heavier barrel, which I do prefer. I don't notice a weight issue using the heavier barrel with the pistol style carbine which gives some of the bull pup handling characteristics, without any ergo challenges. Also those vertical grips if used as a handstop give you some excellent handling with both speed/steering off hand. They aren't for show.
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Ya, makes no sense. Lots of dealers have them in stock for less than used one on the exchange. No wonder they arent sold.
Even at the non sale price of $849 plus tax etc, it's the best value carbine out there, might not be a looker to you but for a knock around, compact break down, reliable gun with good accuracy reports..... what's not to like? Maybe she will grow on you......
CZ Scorpion with non restricted barrel is pretty much what you are looking for, meet all the criteria mention above.
The shroud can be removed, you may choose to use flash hider or simply a thread protector. It's common AR 15 thread but be sure to get a 9mm model for flash hider or muzzle brake.
No need any break in period, just load and go.
Here is mine
The shroud can be removed, you may choose to use flash hider or simply a thread protector. It's common AR 15 thread but be sure to get a 9mm model for flash hider or muzzle brake.
No need any break in period, just load and go.
Here is mine
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The Scorpion's are nice for sure and I find the Czech guns tend to fit me like a glove.....
Looks like that one has some aftermarket stuff added and is likely a bit less then twice the cost of the Ruger...... nice but at a higher initial price.
The only real bummer with the Scorpions are the magazine limits.
Looks like that one has some aftermarket stuff added and is likely a bit less then twice the cost of the Ruger...... nice but at a higher initial price.
The only real bummer with the Scorpions are the magazine limits.
Man, you must have some monster sized mitts on you! I wear xxl gloves and find my CX-4 just fine.
Thanks Poindexter!
If we are talking about the PCC then best we refer to as the PCC.
Trigger is heavy, but no creep. Can sometimes jam with a failure to feed due to magazine design, but some magazines are better than others. Out of the box you need to loctite the rear sight to keep it zeroed.
I think its good for what you pay for ~$500, you get a NR, PCC with 10 round magazines.
What ever you do..... don't google Ruger PC9!
The amount of PC9 heretics you will be exposed to will either rock your perception of reality to the tipping point....... or you will never make it back to CGN due to the resulting quest and life long mission to repair and correct the internet....
Pass me another clipazine.
I’ve wanted a Raven ever since they were announced. Hopefully it doesn’t turn out to be vaporware. Or need 200+ rounds to “break in” like the fx9. The different calibres they mention has me intrigued, would love separate 9mm and 10mm uppers.
I'll echo what Epoxy said about the Beretta, and add that I have 2 of them (both with the upgraded trigger mod)
They have seen thousands and thousands of rounds and are two of the most reliable firearms I've ever used. They require the barest minimum of maintenance and keep on running. In fact they are so reliable I forget to clean them.
They are also very accurate, the limitations of their accuracy is basically due to the ammunition it's fed.
And due to the configuration, they are almost bull pup like in length.
They have seen thousands and thousands of rounds and are two of the most reliable firearms I've ever used. They require the barest minimum of maintenance and keep on running. In fact they are so reliable I forget to clean them.
They are also very accurate, the limitations of their accuracy is basically due to the ammunition it's fed.
And due to the configuration, they are almost bull pup like in length.
Everyone #####es about Pro mags but they run perfectly in the CX4, for lots less than $50
I've owned two gen 1 Kriss Vector's and now own a gen 2 9mm Vector. Something about them keeps me going back.
Very robust design, no tools required to break it down, accurate, very reliable, Glock mags, Looks cool. Nice full length top rail for optics, can be fitted with gen 1 folding stock if you prefer it.
Everyone says they're heavy but when I traded with my buddy who had just shot his FX-9 he said he thought it was light. I should have weighed them both but I guess it just means that where some people seem to think 1 pound is make or break others don't notice it, you just get used to whatever you're holding.
Biggest negative to the Vector is lack of sling options.
Other than that the barrel shroud can be removed by loosening one set-screw if you don't like it. Also of note is that the gen one shroud is lighter than the gen 2 (I have a spare gen 1 shroud that might be going on my gen 2).
I've owned gen 1 Sub2000, worked fine and was accurate but felt cheap and I eventually sold it with 1000 rounds down the barrel for the same price I paid for it new.
Also owned an HK USC with the 16 and a 9 inch barrel. Was probably the nicest PCC I've held or fired, can be converted to NR but magazines are Redonkulous ($100/ea)
I spent an afternoon with an FX-9 and I was impressed but not all reports are positive. Too early to tell if problems are the norm or if most are good.
Other than that the nicest options I can see are the Scorpion or the SIG. Personally I'd go with the Scorpion but only because the SIG magazines are $100+ each from what I was told at the gun shop when I was fondling the 16 inch one they had in stock. The SIG looks like a very nice PCC but the cost is high.
I'm not too familiar with many of the other options so won't comment based solely on looks or CGN reports.
Very robust design, no tools required to break it down, accurate, very reliable, Glock mags, Looks cool. Nice full length top rail for optics, can be fitted with gen 1 folding stock if you prefer it.
Everyone says they're heavy but when I traded with my buddy who had just shot his FX-9 he said he thought it was light. I should have weighed them both but I guess it just means that where some people seem to think 1 pound is make or break others don't notice it, you just get used to whatever you're holding.
Biggest negative to the Vector is lack of sling options.
Other than that the barrel shroud can be removed by loosening one set-screw if you don't like it. Also of note is that the gen one shroud is lighter than the gen 2 (I have a spare gen 1 shroud that might be going on my gen 2).
I've owned gen 1 Sub2000, worked fine and was accurate but felt cheap and I eventually sold it with 1000 rounds down the barrel for the same price I paid for it new.
Also owned an HK USC with the 16 and a 9 inch barrel. Was probably the nicest PCC I've held or fired, can be converted to NR but magazines are Redonkulous ($100/ea)
I spent an afternoon with an FX-9 and I was impressed but not all reports are positive. Too early to tell if problems are the norm or if most are good.
Other than that the nicest options I can see are the Scorpion or the SIG. Personally I'd go with the Scorpion but only because the SIG magazines are $100+ each from what I was told at the gun shop when I was fondling the 16 inch one they had in stock. The SIG looks like a very nice PCC but the cost is high.
I'm not too familiar with many of the other options so won't comment based solely on looks or CGN reports.
Indeed, especially if you want to go the non restricted route. I've had my MPX converted to non restricted by Herron Arms. Between the cost of the gun, and the cost of buying a blank and conversion, I'd likely recommend going with a Scorpion.
In saying that, my MPX is one of my favourite guns, and knowing what I do now, I would still do the conversion. So maybe it is worth it?
Definitely a nice firearm but I just can't justify that kind of cash for a 9mm PCC. It's one of the reasons I've bought and sold so many PCC's, I buy them then when the novelty wears off I remember that there isn't much practical shooting to do with them. Great for plinking and having fun but with so many other non restricted rifles in my safe I usually grab something else when it's play time.
They really are useless restricted or not. They don't make good target rifles, they don't have the power to hunt with (most of them anyway), and for the most part don't make good 3-gun rifles unless your club never makes the rifles shoot over 100 yards.
For me the biggest positive they have going for them is they use cheap ammunition. I really don't know why I keep buying them, lol.
When it comes right down to it I think my favorite PCC is my 9mm AR-15, if it was non restricted I wouldn't need any others. That's why I want the FX-9 to be a keeper. I just can't quite pull the trigger on buying one though until I hear more regarding the issues some guys are having. If I do buy one it would let me sell my 9mm AR though which pretty much pays for the FX-9
