Question for WWII Experts - Russian Sniper Related

PoiluRifleman

PoiluRifleman

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Hello wasn't sure where to post this, if this isn't the section for my question please move it to where it should be :)

I just have a quick question for you WWII historians. I'm wondering if anyone can tell me what the Russians used on their scoped Mosin-Nagant rifles for camo or to keep the rifle from freezing? What I remembered most vividly from the movie Enemy at the Gates is the rifle of Vassili Zaitsev (Jude Law), and how he wrapped it with some kind of cloth or fur? I took some snap shots of a closeup of what I'm refering to here:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg267/PoiluRifleman/WWIIRussianSniperRifle01.png
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg267/PoiluRifleman/WWIIRussianSniperRifle02.png
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg267/PoiluRifleman/WWIIRussianSniperRifle03.png

It looked like some type of cloth if I'm not mistaken? I also took a screenshot from my game Call of Duty 2, the exact same rifle with the cloth wrap:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg267/PoiluRifleman/WWIIRussianSniperRifle04.jpg

Does anyone know what the cloth/fur material is? Thanks
 
Ah thanks comrade lol... Do you have some sources tho? Not trying to be picky but I'm working on my militaria so trying to be as authentic as possible. Glad you can help :)


Was a little bored so here's me on the German side of the game:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg267/PoiluRifleman/CoD2Screenshot01.jpg

Map is Leningrad, I'm holding the 98K Mauser and you can see my two other German companions. I think we were all cut down by the Russian's machine gun a few seconds later.
 
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Probably the same burlap stuff their clothes, bags, hats, slings etc were made out of. I've only seen the scope/action covers before, but they're just to keep crud from getting all over the important bits, they have to be removed for use.

As far as the movie goes, it is not what one would call - Highly historically accurate. Good movie though. I don't doubt snipers covered their guns, and themselves in random cloth, wood etc to make themselves appear to be anything but a person who should be shot at. I'm guessing he used a dead guy's uniform? Except odds are after a while enemy soldiers would instinctively see that colour above others since it almost always would mean there was an enemy soldier inhabiting it, alive or otherwise...

Looks cool though eh?... I like to take a brown towel, wrap my scoped m48 in it, then hide under the covers and pretend I'm the evil german colonel hunting the russian guy:ninja::D
 
Basically nothing, but a few photos show them wrapped in burlap. According to an expert I know, he says burlap use was rarely done. Looked neat in the movie, but never base your historical research on movies. Jude Law was using the wrong rifle, the Mosin-Nagant 91/30 with PU scope was not yet in service at Stalingrad in 1942. The real Zaitsev used a PE scope equipped rifle.
 
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JP said:
Basically nothing, but a few photos show them wrapped in burlap. According to an expert I know, he says burlap use was rarely done. Looked neat in the movie, but never base your historical research on movies. Jude Law was using the wrong rifle, the Mosin-Nagant 91/30 with PU scope was not yet in service at Stalingrad in 1942. The real Zaitsev used a PE scope equipped rifle.
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Ah thank you JP. I was thinking the same thing because from documentaries and photos of snipers of the era, they never had anything covering their scoped rifles... So would it be historically inaccurate to wrap the rifle up like in the movie?
 
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Was it standard practice and done on a regular basis, the answer is no. Did I ever see a photo of Zaitsev with a burlap wrapped rifle the answer is again no. Did it look good in the movie, the answer is yes. But about the only thing that is accurate in "Ennemy at the Gates" is that Zaitsev was a Sniper and he was in Stalingrad in 1942.
 
I think they would have been smart to camoflage their rifles. If there are no pictures it certainly doesn't mean it wasn't done. It would be better to wrap one's rifle in a uniform than to hide under a pile of stuff because the camo would have been attached when you moved the rifle.

I am a stone.

I like how you never see him wrapping his rifle. In some scenes it's wrapped, and in some it's not!
 
Good snipers are obsessive about their equipment. The top Finn sniper did not even use a scope because he was so concerned about staying low.
I am sure that the cloth on Jude Laws rifle was the idea of a movie guy but it very well could have been correct.

If you are making a video game you might as well put it in. It is not historically incorrect like using the wrong scope and people will be expecting it who saw the movie.
I would be interested in seeing how it turns out.

I would like a game where you could play as a Soviet and use all the cool weapons like SVT 40's and PPSH's.
 
Probably used whatever they could find to wrap their rifles(burlap,old uniform etc).I have seen pics of Finnish snipers with their rifles wrapped with white bandage gauze for camo.I read they used motor oil thinned with gasoline in the winter to keep their weapons from freezing the bolts tight,where the Germans used gun oil and had to kick their bolts open in -40 weather
 
Russian guns? Freeze?

What a strange concept! :D

The method used in winter to keep rifles from freezing was to simply skip oiling the bolt. The Mosin's action is so simple that it wouldn't suffer (much) from the treatment.

As for the wrap, I don't think it would have been common practice in the city-fighting, except in winter with white cloth... and even then... Cloth-wrapping would have been used much more often in the woods and grasslands.
 
762 Russian:

I know in our culture we are lax toward the Soviet Union and Uncle Joe, but the hammer and sicle in your avatar is just as offensive as some member having a swastika in their avatar. Do you think the mods would tolerate a neo-nazi? Why are neo-communists exempt from this stigma?

762Russian said:
Russian guns? Freeze?

What a strange concept! :D

The method used in winter to keep rifles from freezing was to simply skip oiling the bolt. The Mosin's action is so simple that it wouldn't suffer (much) from the treatment.

As for the wrap, I don't think it would have been common practice in the city-fighting, except in winter with white cloth... and even then... Cloth-wrapping would have been used much more often in the woods and grasslands.
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skirsons said:
762 Russian:

I know in our culture we are lax toward the Soviet Union and Uncle Joe, but the hammer and sicle in your avatar is just as offensive as some member having a swastika in their avatar. Do you think the mods would tolerate a neo-nazi? Why are neo-communists exempt from this stigma?
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Strange, even though I haven't been here in awhile, I've -always- had the Hammer and Sickle in my avatar here. No one so much as blinked before.

Also, what's that have to do with russian sniper rifles?
 
It was just the quote from Karl Marx that had me thinking about it. It's odd - you can go into the mall and get a shirt with a Hammer and Sickle on it but if you quote Rosenberg and have a Swastika in your avatar there would be an uproar about it.

Approximately 100 million people lost their lives in the name of Socialism in the Twentieth Century. If we were to do the "math" so to speak, Communism and its corollary, Socialism (and the premise that man's life belongs to the state), is the greatest evil mankind has ever witnessed.

Soviet citizens were the only people in World War II to flee their own liberating army!

I find both Communism and Nazism repugnant, but the double-standard is absolutely unacceptable. It just hasn't the same cultural stigma in our society.
 
soviet citizens were the only people in ww2 to welcome the invading german army as a liberating army. To bad the SS came after the army went by. They armed willing supporters who did most of the killing to get ever for stalin's treatment in the 30's.
 
skirsons said:
It was just the quote from Karl Marx that had me thinking about it. It's odd - you can go into the mall and get a shirt with a Hammer and Sickle on it but if you quote Rosenberg and have a Swastika in your avatar there would be an uproar about it.
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Indeed. I know what the original meaning of the swastika is, as well as it's extensive history as a symbol of GOOD. If a Buddist had a swastika in thier Avatar and quoted buddist tenaments, I wouldn't even bother glancing at it. If a Neo-Nazi put the swastika as the Nazis had it (Reversed) and quoted anti-semitic messages, then I'd be in an uproar about it.

I find it interesting that you'd get annopyed at a quote from a Karl Marx speach that directly mirrors pretty much EVERYONE'S opinion on this board in regards to firearms and take offence to it.

I can completely agree that if I was spouting Communist-blok propaganda and the other assorted idiocy that comes from the fanatical left, I'd deserve to be punted. Posting a quote that everyone can agree with, even if it comes from a man no one thinks they'd like? Crime of holding up a mirror perhaps?

Approximately 100 million people lost their lives in the name of Socialism in the Twentieth Century. If we were to do the "math" so to speak, Communism and its corollary, Socialism (and the premise that man's life belongs to the state), is the greatest evil mankind has ever witnessed.
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Incorrect. Socialism is where the state IS the people, the only people 'in power' can only give ideas, to which the people as a whole will vote upon. Socialism is the only true democracy. In Canada, we have 'representative democracy', which is slightly easier on the people who not need to vote all the time, but not always accurate to their wishes.

- - - - -

Why are you bringing up political issues in a forum regarding sniper rifles? I don't even read the political forums for a reason, because I know my personal political views are seen with distaste if not outright hostility.

I am here to talk about rifles, not banter politik.
 
I remember reading in a book on combat on the eastern front, years ago, that sunflower oil was popular. I haven't been able to verify that. As for burlap sandbags they were used.
a179150v6aw4.jpg

Shot at 2008-02-22
a177141v6su3.jpg

Shot at 2008-02-22
cndpv1.jpg

Shot at 2007-11-08

Last one is of me with my Lee Enfield #4 Mk 1 (T) at a World War 2 re-enactor match.
 
762Russian said:
I find it interesting that you'd get annopyed at a quote from a Karl Marx speach that directly mirrors pretty much EVERYONE'S opinion on this board in regards to firearms and take offence to it.
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If it were a quote from Hitler that expressed the same idea about guns I imagine the reaction would be different. Neither Karl Marx nor Neitschze directly killed anyone, but that does not make them any less evil for their immoral ideas.

762Russian said:
Incorrect. Socialism is where the state IS the people, the only people 'in power' can only give ideas, to which the people as a whole will vote upon. Socialism is the only true democracy. In Canada, we have 'representative democracy', which is slightly easier on the people who not need to vote all the time, but not always accurate to their wishes.
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Democracy is a process, it is not an ideal.

762Russian said:
Why are you bringing up political issues in a forum regarding sniper rifles? I don't even read the political forums for a reason, because I know my personal political views are seen with distaste if not outright hostility.

I am here to talk about rifles, not banter politik.
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You are inviting political controversy any time you post with your avatar and quote which are public announcements of your beliefs.

It would be irresponsible for anyone to stand silently by while someone advocates turning the world, by whatever degree, into the Gulag and the Kolhoz. Capitalism is the only moral economic system.
 
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