Question for WWII Experts - Russian Sniper Related

Holy hell you are persistant, Skirsons. I`m not going to continue this discussion, as THIS IS NOT THE POLITICS FORUM. Nor do I ever VISIT that forum for precisely this reason, I have no desire to banter with the stonewallers.

If you want to trod upon my freedom of speech, best ask the forum mods to take out our ability to have signatures and avatars, because there are some on here that are just as distasteful to me as mine is to you.

Please let this thread return to what it was written for.
 
If you want to trod upon my freedom of speech, best ask the forum mods to take out our ability to have signatures and avatars, because there are some on here that are just as distasteful to me as mine is to you.

Please let this thread return to what it was written for.

Freedom of speech is different from responsibility for that speech. You are free to say what you want and I have no problem with that, but that doesn't mean I accept all speech as valid or moral simply because it is said freely.

I am not saying you shouldn't be allowed to say these things, but that you should not say them. You might consider those thousands who saw the hammer and sickle on the side of trains leaving for the concentration camps in Russia. For many it was the last symbol they ever saw. It is just as offensive as the symbols of Nazism.
 
I do not have the Latvian SS crest in my avatar. I have the modern national crest which has no association with the SS, 15th, 19th, or otherwise! It's like saying the Canadian flag represents Japanese internment.

FYI the site you linked to, while I did not click on it, is a Russian site. If you wouldn't trust Putin's or Stalin's word then you wouldn't trust anything coming from Moscow then or now.

The 19th SS batalion fought against the Nazi's and refused to surrender their weapons to them after the war. They did not commit war crimes as an oganization - they fought like the Wehrmacht as did some other foreign legions. However, even though the Nuremberg trials exempted foreign legions from criminal status because of this, I would still not have the SS crest in my avatar because of the associations of the SS with the Final Solution. It's an issue of responsibility. The Hammer and Sickle represents the Final Solutions of Cambodia, China, Russia, Rwanda, etc.

Again how can we be so repulsed by the symbol of the death of 11 million while we barely notice the symbol of the death of 100 milllion?

Skirsons, you have the Latvian coat of arms as your Avatar.

Ever heard of the 15th SS Division?

www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/baltic_nazis/latvia/index.htm

I'm sure the Latvian SS killed alot of people.
 
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Anyone know were I can find a Russian belt from the 40 or 50's with the star on it?

I need it to hold my Mosin pouches. :)
 
Anyway...

Most (many) Russian pics of snipers were staged photos....ergo....the sniper probably took off any cam on the rifle to show the rifle off

Im sure they used any means available to camo their equiptment...Russians were known to be natural 'hiders'
 
I find it ridiculous that folks would question snipers wrapping their rifles. It seems like common sense. I went BACK to the RCR museum and took the audio tour. There was a collection of paintings that were painted by a former Canadian sniper and in at least three of them, and all the paintings that depicted snipers, the Enfield No. 4 was wrapped! Not necessarily in burlap.

One of the displays had a wrapped sniper rifle too.

Sorry if the image is a little big. I wanted to preserve the detail.

RCRMuseum25.jpg
 
Hello wasn't sure where to post this, if this isn't the section for my question please move it to where it should be :)

I just have a quick question for you WWII historians. I'm wondering if anyone can tell me what the Russians used on their scoped Mosin-Nagant rifles for camo or to keep the rifle from freezing? What I remembered most vividly from the movie Enemy at the Gates is the rifle of Vassili Zaitsev (Jude Law), and how he wrapped it with some kind of cloth or fur?

Does anyone know what the cloth/fur material is? Thanks

In the movie, Enemy at the gates, Va-SILLY wrapped his Nagant in Tonya's long underwear to keep his 91/30 warm. On the colder nights, he would additionally wrap it in a fox pelt. And, on the coldest nights, he looked for Thinsulate by the roll!
Nothing worse than ice cubes in your Nagant!
 
I just have a quick question for you WWII historians. I'm wondering if anyone can tell me what the Russians used on their scoped Mosin-Nagant rifles for camo or to keep the rifle from freezing?

I'm pretty sure Burlap has an R value of zero. :p

Best way to keep a rifle from freezing is to not bring it inside after being out in the cold with it, when you take it outside again the condensation that has built up in it will freeze. Canadian troops in Korea learned this the hard way with their #4 Enfields.

Also I'm told and have read that the Russians used various combinations of flax oil, sunflower oil, petrol (gas) and even vodka to keep the actions lubed.

The actions are pretty forgiving.
 
Calum you may find this interesting...

My previous PU sniper (which were not even available for Stalingrad - they were PE snipers as I recall) shocked me one day. I had driven from Terrace to PG and stopped in at my favorite gunsmith to show him my PU Tula Sniper. It was a long trip (about 8 hours) and it was about -35 C in PG at the time. The rifle was in my pick-up's aluminum dry box. I pulled her out. Knocked on the door and went in. When I showed it to him NO FOG OF ANY CONSEQUENCE ON THE LENSES! Everything else was coated in condensation though - especially the metal. The rifle was actually uncomfortable to hold it was so cold.

I don't know what the russians did to these scopes but what I do know is:
1. They are gas sealed
2. the lenses must be coated

The VZ-54 I have is the same. The Czech's know all about winter warfare and have excellent snipers. They ran heavy barrels and free floated them. The ballance on the VZ-54 is shocking. No full wood needed on this puppy - perfectly ballanced.

1.jpg

However going from cold to warm to cold would be a nightmare for wood warpage and barrel pressure points. It is very clear why the Finish Armourers finger jointed their stocks using captured Russian stock. Regardless one would not be able to escape frozen condensation on metal components without a thinned mix of diesel and oil or grease. If it were me I'd coat the bugger from top to bottom and stick it back in the stock as a regular maintenance regime. Certainly the bolt components would be properly greased (if it were me in sub-arctic conditions).

From a personal perspective I can vouch that as a Canadian Ranger my body warmth usually keeps the enfield slung over my shoulder perfectly functional. As soon as you strap it on the back of your snow machine strange things will happen to it. Bolts are much more difficult to manipulate and oil freezes. However I have never had one failure or issue with enfields regardless of the conditions. I expect something similar may be expected with mausers or mosins. Keep them close to the body - no problem.

Itsa like playing an acoustic guitar. They go out of tune very quickly after you pull them from the case. Body warmth moves the neck around until it stabilizes - after that no problems. Its the adjustment from one state to the next where you will lose your zero. If you know where your zero is under that condition then you won't take the shot until the rifle has had time to adjust.

SKIRSONS and 762RUSSIAN
You're both right.
Although this isn't the venue I have been enlightened by your (much appreciatedly) adult and respectful online conversation. For many people of Slavic Descent the Hammer and Sickle do not represent the time of Stalin. It is still however a period that happened and an entire state probably should not be defined by the Evil & Tyranny of that Nation's worst period.

I believe most Russians try to look at this logo as a time of when they were most strong - most proud and try to forget the darkness. If for anything else for their sanity and justifaction of their existance as a Nation.

My opinion is that the Nazi symbol is certainly not an acceptable logo or philosophy regardless of the original Roman indications as a ward against evil spirits. It was born out of a German desire to opress and murder based along ethnic lines. That is not the history born behind the hammer an cycle. The Hammer and Cycle was created to represent an equalization of wealth so that all can share on the nation's success (not the few because of their blood lines).

Regardless of the outcome the philosophies are certainly not aligned.
My council is that 762RUSSIAN not change his portrait logo. The Soviets did some good things for the world. Although I am not of Slavic descent I understand the roots of what it was designed to represent. What got twisted and warped is not true to the spirit of Communism. I should state that I personally detest what Communism turned into - an abhorence to human nature to improve itself.
 
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Trust me it causes me no end of grief with my lovely bride. There are costs my friend - costs. However I make up for it with personality, good humour and endless house renovations...... :runaway:

Interesting stuff, and OMG, where do you keep finding wonderful rifles? :)
 
Fascism, Nazism, and Communism are essentially the same philosophy.

Your opinion is very common and very unfortunate.

"The Soviets did some good things for the world."
- Oh God. What an irresponsible thing to say.
 
FYI, wrapping your rifle is not going to keep it warm. It will only slow down how long it takes to cool. Spend even an hour in the Soviet winter and your rifle will be as cold as the next guy's.

The only point of this has got to be camouflage. You also wouldn't want to give away your position with the glint of polished metal or a scope objective.

My Opa (Heer Captain) had a whole lot of respect for the Soviets. These were two groups of political ideals (both askew) vying for life in a war of total annihilation - for both sides.
 
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Fascism, Nazism, and Communism are essentially the same philosophy.

Yes, and they produce some wonderfully collectible milsurps.

You're turning yours in right? After all, those Mosins and Mausers are probably murder weapons.
 
I just have a quick question for you WWII historians. I'm wondering if anyone can tell me what the Russians used on their scoped Mosin-Nagant rifles for camo or to keep the rifle from freezing? What I remembered most vividly from the movie Enemy at the Gates is the rifle of Vassili Zaitsev (Jude Law), and how he wrapped it with some kind of cloth or fur?

It's only a movie riddled with errors, but you must have wondered by now why Major Konig never had his rifle wrapped? Was the movie budget exceeded or they ran out "wrap" on the roll??? :runaway:
 
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