Question on beginner precision rifle - in 223

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Pootle

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Hey everyone,

I'm thinking of dipping my toe into precision rifle shooting and have decided on 223 for a variety of reasons.

I have a Ruger American that I put in a MDT chassis - but to be honest I really don't like the rifle. It's accurate enough but it just feels low quality and cheap.

After a bunch of research I think the rifle that best fits my budget and needs is a Howa 1500. What I can't figure out are the pros/cons on the version sold in the Mini EXCL Lite chassis like here:
https://internationalshootingsupplies.com/product/howa-1500-mini-excl-lite-223rem-20-threaded-barrel-folding-stock-green/
As compared to the version sold in the MDT Oryx chassis like here:
https://marstar.ca/product/howa-mini-action-223-20-threaded-barrel-grey-oryx-chasis/

I know there is a decent price difference, but the EXCL version is also about a pound lighter and I will use this rifle for some hunting as well. Unfortunately, I can't find a place that stocks both versions so I can't exactly fondle them myself.

What are people's thoughts? What are you getting with the MDT that you are not getting with the EXCL? Are those things worth it for a beginner?

Thanks for any input.

David
 
The practical advice for a beginner is that, assuming you don't mind shooting the Ruger American, is to shoot what you have. Put your money into ammo and some good training courses, and maybe some competitions.
 
The most expensive rifle is always the one you will need to replace with what you should have bought in the first place.

The 223 is a cartridge that most benefits from a custom chamber and hand loads. Even the Howa may not have what will make the most of it and that depends on what your goals are.

My advice is to shoot what you have until you can afford to get what you really want with no compromises.

I'm not big on formal training courses, but I am big on learning and practice. If you are into long range then hopefully you can find a group of F Class shooters in your area. You will learn more in a summer of F Class than you can afford with any number of training classes.
 
If I remember correctly I read somewhere that a 223 loaded with 75 eldm was not far behind a 6mmBr or was it 6.5 creed out to like 600 yards. So it’s performing really well for the small cartridge it is. I would like to try the 75eldm myself and maybe somehow get it to 2900 FPS without signs of over pressure.
 
223 is not always 223. There's a lot of variation in barrel twist, bullet weights, and chamberings. You'll want something with a tight twist, probably 1:7", and the heavier bullet weights from near 70 grains upward. Light bullets go with a longer twist.
 
I had a howa in 223 for a while. It wasn't the mini action. I bought it as a barreled action and put it in an MDT xrs. I wouldn't buy another howa. Never felt smooth, accuracy was meh with a variety of bullets, and the trigger is hot garbage. I'd get a tikka at the very minimum. And I don't own a tikka
 
That EXCL chassis is very flimsy that’s why it’s so light. You’d be better off getting a rifle you want and then buying an Oryx or MDT chassis for it. You could pop it back in the regular stock to take it hunting.
 
Mike112288 said:
If I remember correctly I read somewhere that a 223 loaded with 75 eldm was not far behind a 6mmBr or was it 6.5 creed out to like 600 yards. So it’s performing really well for the small cartridge it is. I would like to try the 75eldm myself and maybe somehow get it to 2900 FPS without signs of over pressure.
Click to expand...

I run 75 ELDMs @ 2930 out of a 26" .223 barrel. It shoots as flat at 700 yds as my 6.5 Creed load of 140 ELDMs @ 2820 but from 500yds out the .223 needs 0.2mils more wind for a 10mph full value wind. A .223 running 75gr ELDMs fast is very capable inside 700 yds.
 
laker415 said:
I had a howa in 223 for a while. It wasn't the mini action. I bought it as a barreled action and put it in an MDT xrs. I wouldn't buy another howa. Never felt smooth, accuracy was meh with a variety of bullets, and the trigger is hot garbage. I'd get a tikka at the very minimum. And I don't own a tikka
Click to expand...

Thanks for that... sounds like the Howa has the same problems I have with the ruger... running the bolt is like running through gravel, and after less than 50 rounds the receiver had scratches in it because the bolt didn't run "true" into the receiver (the amount of "wobble" in the back end of the bolt at full extension is ridiculous).

Accuracy is about 1 MOA, maybe a hair less - but I consider that good enough until I get to the point where I am outperforming the gun.

From most posts sounds like I should just run with what I got for a year or so and then make a decision.
 
Pootle said:
Thanks for that... sounds like the Howa has the same problems I have with the ruger... running the bolt is like running through gravel, and after less than 50 rounds the receiver had scratches in it because the bolt didn't run "true" into the receiver (the amount of "wobble" in the back end of the bolt at full extension is ridiculous).

Accuracy is about 1 MOA, maybe a hair less - but I consider that good enough until I get to the point where I am outperforming the gun.

From most posts sounds like I should just run with what I got for a year or so and then make a decision.
Click to expand...

Good plan. While you are getting in your trigger time, keep an eye on the EE for deals. There have been a few nice tikkas in 223 that have come up for a good price. Same with some dealers offering used or consignment firearms. Saw a supervarmint in 223 for $1100 not too long ago. Even consider putting together something yourself if your budget allows. The bighorn origin is a great value action with a great feature set.
 
In general I agree with the advice you have been given; shoot what you have, learn from F class and that you need a specific type of 223 (rifle and ammunition) to get the longer range performance. Where I disagree is the choice of a Tikka T3. The Magazine might be too short to load the longer heavier bullets out enough to get good velocities and the twist rate is probably only 1:8", which is limiting. The most frustrating part is that you cannot single load a 223 Tikka easily because of the action length. The rounds 'stub' on the back of the barrel.

After many such frustrating experiences (and several different production rifles from well known brands) I now run a Howa Mini action in a Canadian MDT chassis with a Canadian IBI 1:7" twist barrel. Yes, the trigger was awful but a spring change from an Australian distributor solved that. My more recent experiment is with another Canadian product, the BCL Ranger, with its appropriately scaled and nicely made, 3 lug 223 action. It is showing promise, albeit with the restricted load length dictated by the magazine. I'm looking forward to fitting a longer, faster twist barrel on it in due course.
 
Shoot what you have for now, and spend some cash on Reloading, and Range time.

You can spend a pile on a Rifle that may not shoot any better than what you have.
 
I have a couple of built up howa's. The action are straight and true but it you want to really get into it, it will need a custom barrel,chamber to shoot 75+ grain well. Not much aftermarket stuff out there compared to a 700 footprint.

Like many recommend here. Shoot out what you have while saving you money for a real custom. By then you may even choose to go to another caliber. Getting our own skill up is the cheapest way to better scores.
 
rugbydave said:
I run 75 ELDMs @ 2930 out of a 26" .223 barrel. It shoots as flat at 700 yds as my 6.5 Creed load of 140 ELDMs @ 2820 but from 500yds out the .223 needs 0.2mils more wind for a 10mph full value wind. A .223 running 75gr ELDMs fast is very capable inside 700 yds.
Click to expand...

True, but you need the twist for those bullets. A fast twist 223 is a very useful rifle though. - dan
 
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