R.C.M.P Pistols
- Thread starter DanTorz
- Start date
Weren't the ex-RCMP revolvers 5 inchers? It would have been nice to own a Model 10, as regular Model 10 are prohib (4").
I used to work as an armoured car guard, and some (most) of the guys were avid pistol shooters. They had a real tough time learning the Model 10, after shooting personal Glocks and Berettas and what not for years.
It was sort of ironic that these guards had never spent much time with a revolver, going straight to high end semi automatics after getting restricted PALs. It was really a big step backwards when getting a Model 10 for work.
I used to work as an armoured car guard, and some (most) of the guys were avid pistol shooters. They had a real tough time learning the Model 10, after shooting personal Glocks and Berettas and what not for years.
It was sort of ironic that these guards had never spent much time with a revolver, going straight to high end semi automatics after getting restricted PALs. It was really a big step backwards when getting a Model 10 for work.
...As a partial answer to a couple of points raised earlier; The New York Police Department figure are still the most often quoted, and most realistic as far as Police type shootings go. Virtual contact distance, 2.5 yards or less , 2.5 shots , and 2.5 seconds. There's a very high percentage of shots missed, even with very highly trained shooters as well. Assuming the figures are still correct, there's really no advantage to be gained by having larger capacity weapons, apart from the perceived, shooters increased confidence in his or her weapon. From a personal level, if anything increases user confidence, I'm basically all for it, be it an issued rabbits foot or a high capacity pistol ! It should also be noted, than when NY PD switched to semi-autos, they allowed the "older officers" to retain their revolvers. In the latter stages of the 38 Specials operational life, the so called , "FBI load" ... 158 grain, semi wad-cutter, H/P was a VERY effective round ! The 38 Special got the bad rap, largely from the period when the 158 grain round nose was the standard issue load, that same time frame also saw the spare rounds carried in loops (RCMP anyway) in the handcuff pouch, or a modified even older issue, pouch/box carried just in front of the holster. With the advent of speed loaders, things changed dramatically, again, personally, I can see little real world advantage of pistol over the revolver, as the revolver is quicker to train raw recruits to a reasonable level of competence, and it's a little more forgiving in the sense that one only has to grab and squeeze, bear in mind that relatively few Police Officers are willing , able or interested, in honing their hand gun skills beyond annual qualification levels. Basically, given appropriate loads, there's little to choose between a high performance 9mm and a high performance 38 Special. As to the Sig's being RCMP issue; yes they were, to ERT/SERT and some Dog Masters . There were some (limited) failures due to cracked frames, but this was after, probably, 50,000 rounds or more, of full service loads, and even at that, the failure rate was low ! The SIG was rejected based on single/Double action trigger, non stainless steel, and most importantly, the cost over all to make the transition. Would a S&W 686 with round butt, and fixed, "glow in the dark" sights been a better overall choice ? Given that personal preferences and uses, allowed a choice between the 357 Magnum or the lighter recoiling 38 Special, maybe ... David K.
My father has alziemer and it has infiltrated my peanut
Yes, it was the 92 that had major slide failures. The 226 had MAJOR cracks, I remember seeing pics of same. The problem was +p rounds as in the 92. The French knew about the oops and Manurhin developed the change in additonal ribbing of the slide. I personaly believe that it was more of a political/$ thing that dropped the 226, as many RCMP armourers had already done the change over armourer course. There was a second batch of guns with the mods delivered. The ERT had those. As an aside, the RCMP shot a case of every new batch of FEDERAL ammo in Stittsville, before accepting the shipment. Not on round was to fail. Not one round ever failed!
Henry
Yes, it was the 92 that had major slide failures. The 226 had MAJOR cracks, I remember seeing pics of same. The problem was +p rounds as in the 92. The French knew about the oops and Manurhin developed the change in additonal ribbing of the slide. I personaly believe that it was more of a political/$ thing that dropped the 226, as many RCMP armourers had already done the change over armourer course. There was a second batch of guns with the mods delivered. The ERT had those. As an aside, the RCMP shot a case of every new batch of FEDERAL ammo in Stittsville, before accepting the shipment. Not on round was to fail. Not one round ever failed!Henry
- Location
- currently downrange
I have an ex-Ontario Conservation Officer issue 5" barrel Mod 10 S&W. It is exactly like the RCMP issue and came to me from a friend whose father was the officer it was issued to. There is no department markings etc on it and it is in flawless condition as it was barely even used.
I love shooting it once and awhile. Its registered to me until my bud sorts out his PAL so I'm really just "holding on to it" for him.
I love shooting it once and awhile. Its registered to me until my bud sorts out his PAL so I'm really just "holding on to it" for him.
Tuffcity said:Except that the 5946 has an aftermarket grip on it.
...sorry, couldn't resist.
RC
Westicle gets to take digital pics of Mountie guns 'cause he's F.O.P.
[friend of police]...
actually got the picture from one of the head forensic firearms guys attached to the RCMP..... really nice guy, I assume he surfs here as I met him on glocktalk.
NAA said:Westicle gets to take digital pics of Mountie guns 'cause he's F.O.P.
[friend of police]...
cablemonkey said:
I never have understood why Kanada does this??? WTF, they're civvie cops, not versed to work in a combat situation, I've never been a peace keeper (no in our mandate) but I can only assume they have no business in that business either...stick to the streets of Kanada, let the soldiers do the soldiering...
One point not often mentioned in the auto/revolver debate for police is the superiority of the revolver in contact shootings. All of you who love the square gun, clear your pistol (check it twice) then push the muzzle into a cushion like you mean it, you will find that the trigger disconector stops the pistol from firing after the slide is about an eighth out of battery. In a contact range encounter your gun will make the worlds loudest sound -click
- Location
- Alberta land of many guns
I'm sure that contact shooting constitutes the greater majority of lethal encounters for LEO's. I'll stick with an auto that works. Most mechanical issues related to revolvers are not an easy fix should you encounter one, for instance, unseated primers after firing. usually causes the whole cylinder to lock up which means you now have the most expensive and useless club. How about having your revolver grabbed by the bad guy, cylinder doesn't move and gun doesn't fire. Spent casings getting stuck in the cylinder due to heat, now your speed loaders don't work. muzzel blast from the cylinder gap propelling crap inot your face doesn't exactly sound like a benfit to me. Large in comparison to an auto in overall dimensions including weight, not easily concealed. inferior amount of spare ammuntion carried in comparison to the same amount of space for auto's. Slower reloads. Slower malfunction drills. The inability to do a "tactical" reload because of the use of speed loaders as well the inability to maintain a live gun while topping up. Which is something else you can't do. The common load out for revolvers is 18 rounds total. With an auto of either 9mm or 40SW you get 46-51 rounds for the same load out depending on model. I'm not willing to bank my life on 6 rounds. Yes the gunfight usually takes less time and less rounds than even a revolver holds but that statistic is only the majority of cases, not ALL cases. I'd sooner have more ammo than is required. Revolvers require fine tuning to work properly where as auto's don't.
CF
CF
Would another factor be that most revolvers including the model 10 are not Ambidextrous ? I mean there are left handed police officer out there.. oh wait looking at that pic it doesnt look like the new 9mm are ambidextrous are they????
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