Range Report: Ruger 10/22 vs Savage Mark II

[Idcurrie]

I was at the range last night and decided to compare the Ruger 10/22 to the Savage Mark II. I also included a stainless Weatherby Vanguard in .223 as a control to show that any poor grouping is a result of the rifle, not the shooter. All shooting done at 100 yards.

First, the control is the nicely accurate Vanguard. It shoots 1/4 MOA or less.

And now the savage Mark II. This is the bottom line Mark II ($209) with the sporter barrel and a $50 Simmons scope. I only took one group with this rifle as it seems to illustrate the point well. I used Winchester bulk 500 box ammo for this rifle. It shoots sub-MOA.

Finally, this is the ruger 10/22 with the same scope. This is the absolute BEST grouping I could get with this gun out of 15 using various ammo. I don't know how ANYONE can claim the 10/22 is even a remotely accurate rifle in stock form. If the bullseye in these pictures is a gopher's head, I sure as hell wouldn't want that 10/22!

 

[Tyler]

I don't know how ANYONE can claim the 10/22 is even a remotely accurate rifle in stock form.

I don't think many people are... that's why mods are so popular: you need them.

 

[Idcurrie]

^^^ Sadly I see on this forum a lot of people make that claim when someone asks what their first .22 should be. I often recommend something like the Mark II or even a marlin but many here seem to think the stock 10/22 is plenty accurate enough. It isn't.

 

[dastt]

In the summer we put 10 golf balls on a hay bail at about 100 yards.

I was 6/10 in the first 7 shots.

Maybe I just got lucky with a fairly accurate stock 10/22

 

[bill gass]

That's why you use a 25rd mag.One has to hit the mark.

 

[Grizzlypeg]

A lot of gophers are shot at much closer distance and a 10/22 works fine for that purpose, 50 yards and less. You've demonstrated well how a decent bolt gun absolutely blows away a stock 10/22.

 

[cyclone]

A lot of gophers are shot at much closer distance and a 10/22 works fine for that purpose, 50 yards and less. You've demonstrated well how a decent bolt gun absolutely blows away a stock 10/22.

Esp. @ 100 yds...

 

[Courtntan]

Your comparing a bolt gun to a semi? You might as well compare both to the .223 and say they both suck. Hey why not get a shotgun in there too, I'd like to see how a 12g with #4's groups compared to your vangaurd. Apples to apples please.

 

[3dmark]

Im not arguing but that is one fine group with the savage at 100yds with bulk ammo. especially with a 9 power scope.

And really for a semi at 100yds it isnt all that bad either.

 

[Idcurrie]

Your comparing a bolt gun to a semi? You might as well compare both to the .223 and say they both suck. Hey why not get a shotgun in there too, I'd like to see how a 12g with #4's groups compared to your vangaurd. Apples to apples please.

Well, the problem is that when people ask on this forum 'what should my first .22 be?" a lot of people recommend the 10/22 over far more accurate rifles. This includes the marlins which are also more accurate than the 10/22.

Im not arguing but that is one fine group with the savage at 100yds with bulk ammo. especially with a 9 power scope.

Thanks. That savage will eat any kind of ammo and smile all day so I feed it the cheapies...except the CCI stingers. They are 1mm too long and when you want to remove an un-fired cartridge, you can't without a cleaning rod. There are rifling marks on the tip of the bullet so obviously the chamber is so tight that the stinger becomes stuck on the rifling. You can still fire it, you just can't unchamber it first!

And really for a semi at 100yds it isnt all that bad either.

Really? You think the best group out of 15 being 2.4" is okay? Maybe I should post some of the other groups! I wish I had my marlin 60 out to show you but it will come close to 1 MOA. Certainly under 1.5 MOA. It's a semi too so no excuses there for the 10/22.

 

[Courtntan]

Idcurrie, when people ask me what they're first gun should be, I think what is the gun that I have the most fun with, and is by far the most versatile and least intimidating to shoot. Answer: 10/22. If someone asks for the most accurate, I'd point them to a bolt gun, like the savage. If I was trying to head shoot squirrels at 200 yards then bolt gun. Overall I'd say I have more "fun" with my 10/22 then anything else, had a model 60 but the tube magazine sucks to reload. More accurate? Yes. More fun? No.

 

[Idcurrie]

Idcurrie, when people ask me what they're first gun should be, I think what is the gun that I have the most fun with, and is by far the most versatile and least intimidating to shoot. Answer: 10/22. If someone asks for the most accurate, I'd point them to a bolt gun, like the savage. If I was trying to head shoot squirrels at 200 yards then bolt gun. Overall I'd say I have more "fun" with my 10/22 then anything else, had a model 60 but the tube magazine sucks to reload. More accurate? Yes. More fun? No.

...so get the marlin with the magazine? Tube is superior though. I can load that 14 round tube in half the time it takes you to load a 10 round magazine. they just drop in!

New shooters shouldn't have semi-auto anyway. Bolt is slightly safer for them and it teaches them to make their shots count.

 

[Tehoke01]

...so get the marlin with the magazine? Tube is superior though. I can load that 14 round tube in half the time it takes you to load a 10 round magazine. they just drop in!

New shooters shouldn't have semi-auto anyway. Bolt is slightly safer for them and it teaches them to make their shots count.

IMO, for a newbie a first .22 should be somewhere in between - I'd say go with a lever...

...my first .22 was a Winchester 150. It was accurate, ate anything I could buy, held 15 .22LR. To this day it is one of my favorite rifles.

 

[Courtntan]

...so get the marlin with the magazine? Tube is superior though. I can load that 14 round tube in half the time it takes you to load a 10 round magazine. they just drop in!

New shooters shouldn't have semi-auto anyway. Bolt is slightly safer for them and it teaches them to make their shots count.

Ya, but I can pull a 25 rounder out of my pocket quicker than you can load your tube mag. And what can I do with the Marlin? Oil it? No tinkering ='s no fun, in my books. Do you drive your vehicles exactly as they came from the factory? No add ons? No variation? OEM tires wear out so you put the exact same back on? Why would you want that in a rifle? Spice it up a bit and live a little.

As for new shooters, I'll also disagree. Children shooting, yes. New shooters, No. I'd expect that if someone has had proper instruction, and is responsible enough to shoot in the first place, they should know proper muzzle control, and how to work the safety properly. If not, just load them one round at a time.

 

[Perforator]

Ammo makes a difference for me. I did some testing at about 35m with my bone stock 10/22, 10 rounds. Remington Golden Bullet is the worst, about 3-4" groups.
The best I've found so far is RWS Rifle Match, makes a ragged hole the size of a dime, maybe smaller- $68 a brick.

I'm trying anything I can find for under $100 a brick.

 

[Idcurrie]

Why would you want that in a rifle? Spice it up a bit and live a little.

Sounds like you want a barbie doll more than a rifle. Accuracy and utility are what's important in a rifle. The 10/22 has neither (no sling swivels) and costs more than the marlin or savage to boot.

If you're looking for something to tack on a bunch of accessories or dresses to make it look like an M16, the toy aisle at walmart is right up your alley. If you're into shooting, something a little more accurate is more suitable.

 

[surfclod]

If you are dissatisfied with your 10/22 I will take it off your hands, heck I will even pay for the shipping.

 

[a0jc]

Ya, but I can pull a 25 rounder out of my pocket quicker than you can load your tube mag.

Your 25 round magazines load themselves? That's a neat pocket you have there.

 

[Courtntan]

Sounds like you want a barbie doll more than a rifle. Accuracy and utility are what's important in a rifle. The 10/22 has neither (no sling swivels) and costs more than the marlin or savage to boot.

If you're looking for something to tack on a bunch of accessories or dresses to make it look like an M16, the toy aisle at walmart is right up your alley. If you're into shooting, something a little more accurate is more suitable.

Barbie doll? I guess, if that's what it takes to have a little fun then whatever. Do I enjoy all the options the 10/22 affords me? Sure do. I get a real kick out of all the people that have such a hate on for the most popular rimfire ever made, making unrealistic compairisons and telling everyone that it's garbage and they should buy something else strictly based on the fact that it's not the most accurate rimfire out of the box. Wrap your head around this.....there are other reasons that people are buying these rifles. A huge aftermarket, infinite customization possibilities, and the fact that some people actually enjoy having another aspect of the hobby that extends away from the range. I fill hours a week tinkering, learning, shopping with this little gun and call it what you want, but I really like playing with my "Barbie Doll" gun. Maybe someday you'll get it, until then keep buying your kids underware at Christmas, because it's more practical then then having fun.

 

[Courtntan]

Your 25 round magazines load themselves? That's a neat pocket you have there.

Practically with the BC mag loader. 8 loaded 25 rounders before you leave the house is quicker than trying to load the tube in the field. Speaking from experience, that's why my Model 60 is gone.