Range Testing a Stevens in 223 with new PAC NOR barrel.

A quick trip to the range before work. The barrel was scrubbed to get rid of any dirt and packing oils. A bit of JB bore brite to ensure it was spotless.

Two rds at 60yds to sight in then off to 100yds. Starting load 23.5gr, 80gr Amax, CCI Br4 in the old Win cases.

Rds 3 and 4 touch. Rd 5 dissappears into one of the other holes.

5 rds fired and I have a 3rds groups right at 0.22" That's a good start!!!!

I think you can tell my feelings on barrel break in.

The next 4 rds are at 23.8gr and they open up as expected. No real issues with pressure so I continue up.

24.1gr again has two touching and I pull shot 3 low for a 1/2" group. Potential and worthy of a retest.

24.4gr has the three rds 1/2". Again, worthy of retesting and will continue up in powder. Looking for when I reach overpressure for accuracy and the shots open up. Then I will use the most accurate load closest to that point.

No time to chrony but given the velocities of the Stevens and the 75gr Amax, I should be right in there with my target velocity. Will find out next time.

Things to do: Add weight to the butt of the stock - very front heavy as you can imagine. Widen the stock so that it rides the front bag better. With it having a fairly narrow forend and a heavy barrel, it wants to tip and wiggle during recoil. Not ideal for maximizing accuracy. Will also build an adapter so that a bipod can be used with the wide foreend.

Jerry
 
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Right on Jerry. Good info.......I don't reload or do any kind of long range shooting, but this is solid gold. Much appreciated.
 
Another quick trip to the range. Conditions were cool with light gusty winds. Pretty much ideal. Again, proving why I don't bother with testing at 100yds much.



Targets are at 200yds.

The 23.5gr load that shot so well at 100yds is still not bad, 1/2 MOA.

The 24.1gr proved irratic opening up to 1 1/4".

Then went with some 2 shot groups to see where the max load is.

At 24.8gr, things got very interesting. That's the performance I am looking for. Definitely worth a retest!!!

At 25.2gr, pressures signs were obvious so it looks like 24.8gr is max. Hopefully, testing over more shots will prove the 24.8gr a good one.

The barrel has now digested 30rds so time to clean and see what fouling is like.

Two patches and the carbon is out. The first patch of conc ammonia just shows a very light hint of blue. Second and third patch are clean. This barrel is going to work out very well.

Forgot the Chronie so no velocity data.

One last test of that 24.8gr load and if all is well, that will be it for load development for Benchmark. Very close to compression but the kernels are so small, no crunching.

Jerry
 
I'm interested to hear about velocities w/ the 80 amax. I'm wondering if it will be possible to get it going fast enough to make it a better alternative than the 75. I dunno. Looks like you got yourself a nice barrel Jerry!
 
Went out for a quick test last week with the 24.8gr load. First 5 were fouling a clean barrel. The last three snuggled up nicely. The next 5 shot a bughole with two flyers. One was due to a really oversized case needing alot of effort to 'size' with the bolt (not a good idea by the way). The other was an overly small case that chambered with no resistance at all.

The total group was still 1" but.....

Not sure what happened with those two cases but all the old testing brass from the Stevens and now, pac nor have been pitched.

Velocity put this load in the 2950fps average.

Ran out of powder so now with a new lot. Retesting and got some very promising results at 24.9gr in very gusty winds. Velocity was 2925fps but the battery is toast so not trusting these velocities.

Today, moderate to light twitchy winds switching all over the place. light to moderate mirage, getting into the high teens.

With the new powder lot , working up in 1 tenth from 24.9gr to 25.3gr for 3rds.

From a cold barrel, the 24,9gr dropped three rds into a cloverleaf. Outside to outside 3/8" which yields a 0.151" group at 200yds!!!!

Velocity was 3011, 2995 and 2973fps. 'slows' down quite a bit as the barrel heats up. Also, shows how little velocity variation matters. That is quite a spread with all the holes overlapping.

None of the other groups came anywhere near this level of accuracy and velocities hovered in the 2965fps range mostly. I had one group with 2962, 2962, and 2968fps (25.1gr). Group 1.5".

2970fps is likely the average for best accuracy with the 80gr Amax in this barrel. Would have prefered a bit faster but with this level accuracy, I am not complaining. This is certainly a warm load and may not work in any other rifle.

I will retest cause I want to see lots of bughole groups but this rifle has already shown that it can produce cloverleafs at 200yds with the right load. The load will be 24.8/24.9gr of Benchmark. Will have to retest AGAIN due to new primer lot but I know the barrel shoots.

So from a factory rifle shooting 3/8MOA to a Pac Nor heavy barrel capable of shooting in the 0's, I am again very pleased with these Savage/Stevens actions.

No work was done when I installed this pac nor. Just took the old one off, and spun on the new one on.

Although not ideal, the plastic stock will shoot some very nice groups once bedded. Just leave alot of gap around that barrel. If time allows, I will reshape the FV stock into a prone/BR shape with an adaptor for bipod use.

There is nothing wrong with the accuracy that Pac Nor has provided me. I would certainly recommend them for a prefit barrel. I can't say if the polygonal rifling really offers a velocity boost but it certainly is not hurting. The best accuracy has come from the high end of pressure which is great for velocity. This barrel/cartridge is very sensitive to load amounts and a few tenths is critical.

The 80gr Amax, and other Amax bullets, continue to put a smile on my face. They shoot ridiculously well with no sorting, weighing, mucking about. Priced right and usually available at many stores. What's not to like????

Now to stock up on components and enjoy the next 5000rds of clay busting fun.

Jerry
 
Been fielding a few PM's on this so I want to clarify, in load testing this rifle has shot groups at 200yds that are in the 0's. However, that is not what this rifle AGG's/Averages - BIG difference.

The 80gr Amax is shooting very well put the load is like on a razor's edge (see test groups above). A bit more or less powder and groups open up dramatically. The best multi group average is more in the 3's and 4's (not great, not bad). What I don't like is how sensitive it is to powder change which will reflect in dramatic changes as the weather warms up.

No way to identify if it is bullet or powder related so will just put the entire load on hold for now.

I just started testing some 75gr Amax. This combo shows more consistent accuracy over a wider range of powder loads. Best 2rd test groups were in the 1's (more like it).

When testing a rifle, don't fixate on the best group. Every well made rifle will shoot a hummer or two. Like driving a hole in one, they are great when they happen but not representative of the average score you will have.

I much prefer a stable and consistent load with acceptable accuracy then a load that might shoot a hummer under perfect conditions but mediocre the rest of the time.

More testing with the 75gr Amax to follow. When 'the' load is found, I do a 3 to 5 group test and that determines the average. I am hoping for this rifle to settle into the 1's and 2's under calm conditions at 200yds.

I was really hoping that the 80gr load would continue to shoot cloverleafs. Unfortunately, that is not the case but the hummer groups will look nice on the wall.

Jerry
 
mysticplayer said:
No interest in shooting MK's.
Click to expand...

Why no to SMK's ? Is there a problem with them ? I am just starting some load development with 175 SMK's in my .308, after the 168 AMAX proved not much better than about 1MOA (showed some promise, but not enough to coninue with them....)
 
Cost, ballistics, quality control:

If I do want to shoot a HP 22 or 308 match bullet, I would rather go with the Nosler Comp. Very accurate and substantially cheaper. Same ballistics (essentially a MK clone).

If available, the Lapua is beyond reproach. I am now starting to use some Bergers and this is a very promising bullet too.

I prefer the poly tipped match bullets as they offer a better real world BC (22 and 7mm are the best with some 30cal very exciting). If you compare the 22 cal match bullets (6mmBR.com), you will note that the 75gr Amax has the same length and similar profile to the HP VLD's of 80gr. The 80gr Amax similar to the 90gr bullets.

The lighter AMax will go much faster so will offer a tangible reduction in wind drift. Not every barrel will shoot this bullet well so you got to shoot what it likes first.

Sierra has unfortunately suffered from very serious quality control. This help establish all the measuring, weighing and trimming now common practise in LR bullet prep.

Life is too short. I refuse to pay premium prices for a bullet I cannot feel 100% confident in or have to sort and cull. I also refuse to pay the premium for a bullet that doesn't give me the best ballistics. The tangent ogive shape used in the MK has been proven to have higher drag then the secant ogive common to the Hornady and other true VLD bullets.

There is no doubt that many shooters have success with MK's. The 300gr 338 MK is the top of the heap for a commercial LR slug outside the BMG and a bullet I use.

Just most offerings are not for me especially in the 22cal.

Jerry
 
Jerry, Considering that you started with the stevens, and then installed the trigger mod, would you suggest going the same route, or starting with a savage with accutrigger ?

You have convinced me I need one or the other in .223. I just hope it and my remmies can get along....
 
I start with the Stevens because I intend to change everything - trigger, barrel, stock. Also, in its orig format, it makes a great walkabout varmint/yote popper.

These are the least expensive way to get an action. The Stevens trigger is an excellent 3lbs hunting trigger. Too heavy for my perference.

If you are ok with a 1.5lbs trigger and a factory barrel specs, go with the Savage. It is much cheaper in the long run. They also tend to shoot very well - 1/2 MOA or so with handloads and bedding, sub MOA with factory varmint ammo. The Accutrigger is one of the best factory triggers I have used and that includes old gen Rem 700's.

The 12FV is the best bang for your buck plastic stock and all. Open up that barrel channel ALOT and bedded, it works wonderfully. Changing to any other stock later is a no brainer.

If you know you want to put some aftermarket stock on right away, then just buy the factory rig so equiped as again, cheaper to buy it as it comes out of the box.

The new single shot varmint actions with light triggers are very interesting. However, with pricing around $1000, I can put together a great shooter for pretty much the same bucks and likely have a better shooter, so unless you want that action, I would prefer to build my own.

This Stevens project was always going to end up as a F(F) and tactical type rifle. But first, it has to cause Rems and other custom rifles some embarrassment in the postal matches.

The Amax bullets have really open my eyes to the LR performance of the 223. When I first started LR shooting 8 yrs ago, I quickly saw the limitations of the light varmint bullets. Went with much bigger cals and cases. The 'high' BC 223 bullets put this little case back into the 'fun per bang' list.

The next closest giggles per buck is the 6BR but that is another story.

The key is twist rate. With the enormous success of all these 9 twist and soon 7 twist Savages, all manf will make these faster twists standard fare so it will not matter which brand you lean towards.

Rem is going to rebuild, I hope, and their products will/could/would be interesting. For now, Savage is my favorite and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Jerry
 
Been a very long time, but my 'NEW' Pac Nor 223 has been tested and is shooting superbly.

The barrel I originally posted started becoming irratic. Checking the bore showed that the last 6" was very rough and pitted. Odd. I contacted Pac Nor and they said to send it back.

They inspected and immediately said they would replace it. The new barrel showed up late Aug. This bore looked right so I began retesting. Very good customer service indeed!

With the loads from the first barrel, I started playing around with HORRID results. Would shoot tight, then flyers. YIKES - same problem but with a new barrel.

I put it aside in disgust to practise with my 6.5 Mystic for the Farky.

With the Farky now past, I have dusted off this pac nor barreled Stevens and have tried again. Again, the loads were all over the map barely holding MOA at 200yds. If all else fails, start over.

So today, I backed way off on the Benchmark loads and worked up. I also brought some Varget loads just to see.

The Benchmark loads I was using before were WAY too hot. Backing off got things tamed and 3rds in almost a cloverleaf at 200yds as the result. 23.4gr into 0.370" or .185MOA.

That load will get more testing for sure. Hopefully, it will stay in the sub 1/4 MOA range. A bit peaky with a few tenths on either side showing groups opening up. Pretty typical for this size of case and a powder on the fast side for the bullet used (75gr Amax).

Varget was next and what a joy that was. The groups shrank predictably as powder was increased leading to 3 pairs touching using 24.4gr, 24.6gr, 24.8gr. 6rds forming a composite group of 1/4" at 200yds. That's a group size of .112MOA. I only shoot 2rd groups the first go round to find accuracy nodes and max.

That is widest sweet spot I have ever shot in this size of case. This will be a very docile barrel shooting over a wide range of temps. Again, more testing but these results are very promising.

I am glad to see that I did get a good pipe from Pac Nor. Was getting nervous after the first few sessions.

Barrel cleans up nicely too with little/no copper fouling after 80rds down the pipe.

Another set of final testing to confirm at 200yds, then test further to see if stringing becomes a problem.

Gotta love these actions!

Jerry


Varget groups


Benchmark groups
 
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Last week was a bundle of fun as the 'accuracy' of the rifle took a serious turn. Groups were all over the place. Couldn't dial it back in no matter what happened with the load. Changed rest positions, hold, you name it.

The problem - loose scope ring screws. ARRRGH! Do check all the nuts and bolts on your rifle periodically.

With that figured out, back to load testing. Temps have been falling steadily which has also been a royal pain. As temp stable as the Hodgdon powder is, going from 15C to 5C does require load adjustment especially when you are playing with a tenth here and there.

That has taken a few trips to get sorted out. I have had to increase my Benchmark load to 23.8gr and Varget to 24.7gr. Hopefully, that will take care of temps down to freezing - no interest in testing in colder weather. Loads will have to be adjusted next spring/summer.

Also, put on a piece of plywood to make the forend a full 3" wide. Gets rid of movement on the rest which had lead to a number of flyers. Will try and get a pic posted of my FUGLY mod.

Another headache, very cold barrel. Finding that the first few groups are way off as the barrel warms up from near freezing temps. Going to try and warm the barrel before shooting.

After all the mucking about, I ended todays shooting in awesome conditions - cool, calm, no mirage, around 5C amb, barrel slightly warm to the touch- with 4rds group crowding 0.469" outside to outside at 200yds. This group nets 0.245" or .112MOA. Varget was the powder used.

Getting close...

Jerry
 
Great reporting. It is like a stream of consciousness. I can certainly relate to what you are thinking and doing.

I have done complete load development for 223 about 5 times. Each rifle eventually would group consistently one inch or slightly better. 10 shot groups at 100 yards. Always the Sierra 80 match.

What I found frustrating was that not one rifle would sue the same load. In fact, not one rifle would use the same powder. For this reason I suggest you try some other powders. H4350 seems kinda slow.

If you knocked on my door I would give you a cup of RL15, VV N140 and VV N150 to try. My rifles like something in the order of 25 to 26 grains of these powders.

You might also try a dab of bedding compound on the side of the action about the middle of the magazine. This would dampen the action flex. I don’t know what it would do to a 223, but it is very beneficial in a 308. All my Savage 223’s are the single shot version, so the actions is not only stiffer, but they are all easily full length bedded, plus have the third screw, too.

By the way, I think you are already knocking on the door of the limit of the bullet and barrel. The production bullets are probably not good for much more than a quarter minute and I would consider anything better than a half minute out of a factory barrel to be a bonus. I am looking at those pesky flyers, not your main group.
 
Thanks Ganderite. I have taken the long way around to my final set up just to try different things and see how changes would improve. At the end the rifle will have a wide forend shaped like my BR stock. 3" wide and very rigid. The Butt may get modified later to a flat bottom but with the rifle moving so little during recoil, don't think it will change anything.

This will be a LR F(F) or tactical rifle. Give me a rifle to learn how to shoot of a bipod too. As I near my final set up, the consistency is increasing as expected. However, it has been interesting to see how well the 'basics' can be made to shoot. Not as consistent but alot more accurate then some would believe.

Until putting on the plywood bottom, I was shooting a 1.5" wide stock in a 3" bag. No side contact to simulate shooting off a bipod or off a field rest. Except for shooter error, it did almost as well as now. Those plastic stocks are not ideal but can be made to be very serviceable.

Ironically, the orig factory barrel was much easier to dial up a load for. Way different throat and shell OAL so the load is vastly different. I continue to be amazed that these factory pipes can shoot 3/8 to 1/2MOA on a consistent basis even out to 200yds. That is until they heat up....

Still for a factory rifle and a little tuning costing less then many used rifles, that is pretty special.

This Pac Nor fast twist was an experiment in both fast twist AND polygonal rifling. Added velocity was the goal to max the cartridge for LR shooting. Haven't chronied yet but the load amounts would suggest I am certainly in the SAAMI max velocity range if not higher.

One thing this barrel enjoys is shooting dirty. The 223 is not exactly a big case but I am pushing 50 to 70rds with only the occasional dry patch to push out the surface soot. With the potential to shoot groups in the 1's at this level of filth, would be good for long relays or events where you can clean.

Of course, the next barrel may have no bearing on this one.

Overall, I am very pleased with the quality of workmanship done at Pac Nor. The crown is very well cut. The chamber concentric and true. Their reamer is also very short throated which is ideal for all those varminter and their light bullets. A bit short for my long bullets but the OAL will feed from the mag - a nice compromise.

Would love to try more powders but for me, not easily accessible. Why I gravitate to hodgdon whenever I can. The Varget load should do all I want. I am still going to try the Benchmark just because I have a bunch. It has proven to be very irratic but then the 'system' has been changing lots recently too.

My next range session will put a bunch of the Varget load downrange to try and get an agg. Hope I am shooting well that day. I would love to see it agg in the 1's to low 2's at 200yds.

I am so surprised at how well these Amax continue to shoot. A factory bullet clovering at 200yds is nothing to sneeze at. Yes, I have had all manner of fliers but they have also been a huge series of other component changes so hard to say what is the main culprit.

With this final rifle set up and narrowing of the load, we will be able to just focus on the powder and its affect at the target. All I want is more of this wonderful stable shooting conditions.

If I can get either load to agg under 1/4MOA at 200yds, that will be a huge success given how basic this platform is.

Time will tell.

Jerry
 
Weather has turned chilly and wet. Good fall weather with winter just around the corner. Figured I would take a chance at lunch and headed out to the range.

Winds were moderate and gusty (5 to 15mph) from tail wind to side. Far from ideal to shoot bughole groups. Decided to shoot anyway for 'score' and see how well I would do.

I tried to shoot when conditions were as close to steady as possible. Kept the same POA to see where the bullets would bounce to.

Quite pleased to see that most of the bullets shot inside a 1" grid at 200yds. If I missed the gusts, it would get blown 1/2" to 1". Far less forgiving then my 6.5 Mystic but that is expected.

If this was 200yds F class, I would have dropped a couple of points in 25rds fired and had a decent X count. Not bad especially when I was aiming dead center all the time and just waiting for winds to stabilize.

Hopefully, there will be a calm day before it gets too cold and I can see how this rifle aggs. If not, next spring. Barrel definitely does not like shooting when ice cold.

Jerry
 
The morning was cool but the weather looked promising so off to the range I went. The winds were calm when I arrived. Set up and the winds became light and gusty. Still pretty decent air. Put a few mid range marking tapes on trees to spot changes in the winds off the hills and valleys.

Warmed up the barrel with 8 shots with the last 4 in the 'warm up' group. The first 4 were all over with the next group tightening up. The last two shots touched at 200yds.



Group A had most all the flags still. Couldn't see where the bullets were landing but expected a nice group as there were none outside the black middle. Group came in at 1/2"

Group B had the first two shots close, then WTF? Looked up to see a couple of the mid range flags going 45degs out. OOPs mixed a big gust. Let that settle down for a bit then put number 4 into the group. Without the flyer, the group is 0.530"

Group C had winds pick up a bit with a bit of swirling. Flags on both sides of the range were moving at different rates and sometimes in different directions. Pretty typical as the air starts to heat up and flow off the hillsides and off the ground. Have no idea what happened with the shot marked with a question mark.

Pulled it or caught some weird wind or just a flyer - no clue. The remaining three went into 0.600"

All 20shots were fired inside 10mins.

No records were broken today but the rifle is hovering very close to the 1/4MOA range minus ooops/flyers. I had three extra shells so targeted some 1"/sub 1" rocks at 200 to 215yds. Three shots, three hits - that was very comforting.

I tried some Benchmark loads but still not staying put so will give up till the weather warms up. Varget is going to be my go to load and is working great in these cooler temps.

For an F class/varmint/tactical comp rifle, the accuracy is certainly there. Attached are some pics of the present state of the rifle. That 3" wide piece of plywood has three supports and is epoxied to the stock. This simple addition has done wonders to help recoil tracking and stiffen the stock. I will build up the sides now to make it rock solid but shows how a simple addition can really improve these tuperwear stocks.

Please note the huge gaping gap under the barrel. 1/4" between the barrel and stock. More room the better but you really need to add some stiffeners to get the most out of these stocks.

So I am very pleased with this rifle and how it is shooting. If I ever find those nice dead calm days, it should stay in the 1/4MOA, maybe better at 200yds. For a box stock Stevens that has been simply rebarreled and a simple stock mod made, it is shooting very well.

Going to go out further and plink on rocks, and clays. Want to learn how to shoot off a bipod and the extra wind doping skills of these bullets. These bullets definitely get bounced around a lot more then my 6.5 Mystic. Very challenging to get it right.

I am pretty sure I have answered the PM's asking for more info. If I haven't, please just let me know.

Hope you guys have enjoyed the write up and testing. You don't need to spend a fortune to get a tack driving rig. You just need to put your money where it will do the most good. Keep clear notes when working up a load. Know where the shots are landing and why. Tune in small increments and be consistent.

Odds are, you next rifle will be a tack driver too.

Jerry



 
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Was reviewing my groups over the last few weeks and kept wondering why there were some great groups and other mediocre ones. In some cases, weather wasn't all that bad nor that cold. Oh well, was putting stuff away and found some Lapua cases. Well, why not break out the good stuff and see if that helps.

Looking at the Lapua cases, it struck me that the cases were 'very short'. Comparing to the brass I had been using, it was obviously shorter.

Out came the calipers and I measured the two. yep, big difference. Took out the reloading manual and trim length 1.750", Lapua 1.750", my stuff as long 1.785". OMG, I was WAAAAYYYY over max trim length.

Took out a bullet to see about neck clearance and as expected, some cases were a firm fit while others had lots of room. SH!T

I had trimmed them long at the beginning but hadn't checked since. Well, they had happily grown to be WAY over max length.

When cases are too long, the neck goes into the leade which tapers to the rifling. The clearance here is much smaller then in the throat area. This causes cases to have differing amounts of room to expand and release the bullet. You end up with wild variations in pressure and ....FLYERS!!!!!

I had overlooked something so simple and basic as case length. All the cases have now been trimmed to the correct length. They will now have enough room for consistent bullet release.

Some more ammo with the 'new' case length will go to the range next time. I expect groups to tighten right up and flyers to dissappear. Will work up the Lapua brass to see how that shoots.

How's that for a Blonde moment????

Jerry
 
Nice to see this write up! Will try learn from all the events shown here and will try avoid the "blond moments" Very nice write up on your load developments and a eye for detail is worth the extras;) Good luck with the trimmed cases and cant wait to see the results.
 
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