Range Testing a Stevens in 223 with new PAC NOR barrel.

GANDERITE said:
I am looking at those pesky flyers, not your main group.
Click to expand...

Some more ammo with the 'new' case length will go to the range next time. I expect groups to tighten right up and flyers to dissappear. Will work up the Lapua brass to see how that shoots.

Without the flyer, the group is 0.530"

Pulled it or caught some weird wind or just a flyer - no clue. The remaining three went into 0.600"

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Since my last post, the Win brass has been trimmed and I have fireformed some Lapua brass and worked up a load for them. Got out this morning and again, cool, mostly calm with a slight quartering headwind - a few MPH's and a bit gusty.

The goal today was to test to see if the flyers would go away. Short answer it didn't. In fact, it was quite prevalent.

In 5 groups fired with Lapua, and Win brass, ALL groups had 3 shots cloverleaving with one or two out as much as 1.5". The clusters were 3/8" to 1/2" at 200yds. Something is definitely not correct.

What I know is working well includes the type of powder, amount of powder, primer, sizing and seating of bullet (checked with a concentricity guage). Cases were also volumed check and are bang on. Since I am also shooting Lapua brass, that variable is controlled.

What I need to test include:

1) Completing the mods to the stock so that the forend is completely rigid and the barrel has a honking big gap around it. Maybe there is still enough flex to throw shots out????

2) Quick check on the bedding and action screws to ensure nothing is moving. This I doubt as accuracy would be all over the map.

3) Try another lot number of bullets. You just never know.

4) Put on another scope. Check all nuts and bolts for tightness.

I am hopeful that these final step will debug the rifle and get the groups consistent.

Will post results.

Jerry
 
Looked over the rifle, all the screws and bolts. All nice and tight. Played with the stock and all feels more then rigid enough.

So I swapped the scope from my 6.5 Mystic and went out LR plinking today.

Out to 670yds, I wouldn't want to be a pop can or pine cone. The rifle was shooting very consistently and accurately at that range. Of course, I have no idea what the group size is but I did blast away some very small objects.

Got to muck with the scope shimming a bit then will do some more group shooting at 200yds. Hopefully, the problem has been resolved.

Jerry
 
A good day of testing. Good conditions with light gusty winds. Put on my scope from the 6.5 mystic, did up some more loads.

Shot some awesome groups that were in the 1/4" to 3/8" range BUT there was always a flyer. This time all the flyers were in the vertical which is exciting because this is usually rifle or shooters form.

Confirmed that there is nothing wrong with the other scope and the load/bullet is working well.

Did a bunch of different holds and location on the rest to no avail. I have now glued on the side lumber reinforcements and will finish off the stock like I usually do.

This should eliminate any chance of bounce due to a flexing stock.

without these flyers, this combo is shooting spectacularly. Let's see how the stock mod works out.

Jerry
 
Reinforced the stock so that there is no movement with some very agressive bending.

Shot today in very nice conditions. Again, a bit of a quartering light breeze but nothing too much.

The flyers seemed to have gone away but the groups were a bit larger overall.

Got a spread of 1/4 to 1/2MOA over 6 groups of 5 at 200yds. So that is pretty much the mechanical limits of this rig and bullet.

Not as good as I was hoping for but the rig will have no problem as a varmint/clay buster that can also pull some tactical/F class duties.

Unless I come across some other bullets, (more 80gr Amax come to mind) the 75gr Amax testing is done.

Now to have some more fun balsting away out to 1000yds.

Jerry
 
Nice shooting Jerry. I had a decent day with my pacnor stevens too. Did some load work at 200 yards. Just could not break 3/4 of an inch but very consistent in that all the groups I shot were almost identical. Horizontal stringing though, if I measured the vertical group size only I would be well under 1/4 MOA. Going the other way with the load next week. Damn near have to wear out a bbl just to get it all figured out.:p Guess thats what makes it so fun!
 
jv, my pac nor stock is somewhere between fugly and horrid. Just slapped it together and hogged it apart for some quick range time. Had my bandsaw blade go dull then wander. Yes, it is a mess but nothing some plywood, shims, epoxy and lots of filler can't fix. You know the drill.

Essentially, the stock will have a wided forend but a factory rear. I don't have the time right now to do what you did and build up the back. Maybe in the spring.

For the money, the Pac Nor's make some very nice pipes for varminting, and comps like F class. So far, wouldn't recommend as a BR pipe.

Now to go pound them nasty zoombie rocks out to 1000yds. Maybe, give that 'gopher' a hard time.

Jerry



 
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Unless you clear coat it, the stone paint sucks for durability. I have been using Rocker Panel rock guard clear from LORDCO. Very durable but a bit pricey. Textured too so works great on the stone paint but would look odd on reg paint.

That paint job is a couple of seasons old now.

Got a near full can but a clogged nipple. I hate that.

Jerry
 
Took it out to 1000m in light winds. Don't let anyone tell you that a 223 is not effective at 1000m. I was keeping them in a 1/2 MOAish rock except when vertical stringing reared its ugly head. This combo is definitely capable of capping PD's at 1km if you dope the winds.

Shots would fall into the target then schwing one high or one low. A change in wind would push it left or right but that was pretty obvious to correct for. The verticals were definitely flyers and the amount changed was over 1min either way...NO GOOD.

So with a bit of head scratching as there are no issues with the rifle set up and rests (assuming the barrel isn't pooched), I concluded that the only real change during the last few weeks has been a steady drop in ambient temp. Daytime highs are almost 15C lower then when this all started. Yes, powder amounts were adjusted with very positive results, then bad results and flyers. The more I worked, the worse it has gotten.

Well, again there is a very simple solution to test - Change primers.

Lots is written about temp stable powders but zippo about the primers. Well, they are affected by temps too. As temp falls, their 'flash' changes which affects the ignition rate and pressure curve. A varying primer flash will cause you load to show the same effect as a few tenths change in powder. That can really screw up your accuracy, or in my case, show up as vertical stringing.

The CCI BR4 primer has been used for ALOT of shooting over the years so I know that it works well. However, it is a reg. primer and as temps fall, its flash can get irratic. So I switched to the CCI SR magnum primer and have worked up some test loads.

Lo and behold, things are becoming more sane. I have a few load amounts with very good accuracy potential but most importantly - no vertical stringing. Will do some larger volume testing but I think I have found the solution.

Testing the BR4 load on paper shows exactly what I found at 1000m. The majority of shots would go into a cluster but there would be high and low flyers. In the spring, this primer will come back into its own but for now, I will stay with the SR magnum and tweak that for the last few weeks of shooting before the snow.

One other area to look at is called 'clocking'. In many rifles, groups shrink then expand then shrink again as you adjust your powder. These are called nodes. The shape of the group will also change and will actually rotate from a either horizontal group to vertical or vice versa. These things you see at 200yds and with solid rests/good high mag scopes.

Becomes a good diagnostic tool for seeing if the primer is adequate and if you are over pressure. Ideally, your group should be nice and round or triangular but if you show more of an football shape, it will likely clock.

If you have two loads that are of similar accuracy, choose the one that is more horizontal in shape.

Jerry
 
WOW Jerry. I've been following your testing since the beginning and i'm really pleased to see the results. I've started testing with the Stevens/223 combo as well. I'm getting good results but my concerns is, to actually get 75gr AMAX to group 1/2 MOA they have to be 0.015" to the land and don't fit the mag. Did you experienced the same problems?

My combo so far after 2 tries is 24.5 GR BL-C2 powder with Fed match primer and Hornady 75 AMAX @ 2.535". The gun is still stock, bit of sanding and barrel channell opening, that's it.

Thanks and good luck in your future testing. I sure enjoy reading your reports.

Gaetoune
 
gaetoune, I also had to seat my AMax long in the Stevens but didn't engrave in the lands. Still it is single feed only.

If you want to feed from the mag, you can seat the bullet to fit then adjust your powder in 1 tenth increments till your accuracy comes back.

Glad you enjoy the testing. Definitely took the long way around but have learnt more tricks.

Jerry
 
Thanks Jerry, I was re-reading your fisrt post and you actually metionned it... I should have went back...:rolleyes:

Really enjoy shooting that gun, especially for the price.:D I never had problem with any savage I had or tested but this one is a great deal. Did some trigger adjustment and I'm surprised how light I got it could get it lighter but don't want it to be unsafe.

I'll keep shooting it like that for now til I can afford a good pipe. So far some little load tweak and I should be pretty much where I'm supposed to. As long the guy behind the gun does it's part ;)

Thanks again.

Gaetan
 
WOO HOO!!!!

Looks like the flyer problem has been solved.

Did a large work up using the CCI 450 SR magnum primer. Conditions were warmer around 11C, but moderately strong gusty winds coming in both directions and switching. Not ideal for sure.

Started off with some Varget loads and the 75gr Amax. Groups were spread horizontally around 1 1/2" but with almost no vertical. One load had 4 in a straight line with the 5th 1/2" lower. Excellent as I was not holding off or adjusting for the wind.

Tested some 80gr Amax which also showed the same horizontal spread with very little vertical. Less powder of course but this pipe will also shoot this bullet well. Looking forward to chronie these loads and see how they compare at 1km.

Final two groups were in lighter conditions. Benchmark did a 5/8" groups. Dry swabbed the bore to go back to the Varget load. Shot 1 was low as expected, shot 2 back up to zero height, 3 to 5 into a cloverleaf. Shots 2 to 5 went 1/2".

Going to be using the CCI 450 primer till spring. Maybe always.

Looks like I might have a 1/4MOA barrel as initially indicated. Very promising indeed....

Jerry

PS sometimes a barrel only needs a dry patch or two run down the bore to get it shooting its best again. I am finding that this barrel doesn't need to be chemically cleaned all that often (copper fouling is zip). In fact, shoots better when I don't clean to a bare bore.

However, accuracy does go south after 50rds. Dry patching after 20 to 30rds keeps it humming along nicely.

Just the first shot or two is out of the group. In my case, the first shot is low.
 
Nope. Will continue with the 6.5 mystic for F class as there is no F(F). Now if there was an F(F)......

Hopefully, out to 1000m tomorrow without the flyers. enjoy shooting at Obtunded's place. Wish I could be there.

Any word if Mark is going out to 500M?

Jerry
 
Today, my pac nor Stevens at 1000m kept all shots inside a 1/2 X 3/4 MOA rock (based on mil dot subtension) in very light/calm air. No more vertical flyers, just boring hits IF I did my part.

It is shooting superbly with the Varget load. Will try again with Benchmark and see how it does. Pity, I ran out of time as conditions were really nice.

Had a chance to take a new LR shooter out with me. He was thinking 400yds as a very long shot so we started him off at 540yds and he was on the rock on his second shot using his hunting rifle. Then 715yds and 800yds. Pretty big grin.

I did some shooting at 1000m with the 223 and got it dialed right in. He took over hitting on the first, a bit off on the next, and off on the third. A quick review of form and he ended pounding the rock dead center on his forth.

Don't think he thinks LR is 400yds anymore...

Jerry
 
mysticplayer said:
gaetoune, I also had to seat my AMax long in the Stevens but didn't engrave in the lands. Still it is single feed only.

If you want to feed from the mag, you can seat the bullet to fit then adjust your powder in 1 tenth increments till your accuracy comes back.

Glad you enjoy the testing. Definitely took the long way around but have learnt more tricks.

Jerry
Click to expand...

Would you expect the same accuracy potential seating them to magazine length, and adjusting the powder in comparison to seating them long and just off the lands?
Thanks for the great post again Mystic
 
Short answer - YES.

Longer answer - only if the bullet is seated concentrically. I like to be within 3 thou of runout.

If you use Varget and the 75gr Amax, you will likely have a compressed load if you use a BR4 primer. That I don't like. Sound of crushing powder doesn't work for me.

Instead, you can switch to benchmark or the CCI 450 primer and Varget.

The varget load will drop about 1/2gr to reach the same tuning. Low enough so there is no compression but 100% load density. The benchmark load is almost 1 gr less then Varget and this powder very fine grain so will have lots of space with either the BR4 or 450.

Use the 450 when temps get cool/cold. The BR4 strings horribly.

Jerry
 
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