Ranges Ban Black Rifles?

Kinda remind me of my cousin who won't cook in his kitchen so that he doesn't need to clean it.......let's all go piss and #### out in the backyard so there is no need to clean the toilets!

At my club, I see more empty .22LR casing than anything else.....let's ban .22LR!!

Seriously, stop being so cheap and grumpy. Give some local kids 8 bucks an hour for a few hours per week, and let them do the backbreaking work. THis makes everyone happy. THis is a perfect case where a few bucks can solve the problems and make everyone's life more enjoyable.
 
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A sign in sheet where the shooter writes down the area he shot at, time and date, and the condition before and after of that area might help weed out the lazy shooters.

The broom magnet is probably a cheap investment for the club and will make it easier for the lazy surplus shooters as well as the keeners who are willing to clean up other shooters garbage....
 
I don't shoot tthe danged things and have no desire to even test fire one at any time. ( although I may have a few years back).
HOWEVER,I will agressively oppose ANY petiton or lobby to ban any particular type of firearm at our club. PERIOD!
The shooter leaves his crap around, not the rifle......

Cat
 
yeah i agree wtf is the point of this forum if you start banning guns from the ranges the next thing to happen will be anti gunners using this thread as evidence that the "Gun coumunity" wants this band so there go's another good rifle to the crusher cuse some SLOB dint pick up his casing. deal with it with out saying ban this and that or else we become the people were fighting on a daly bases in the puplice eye.
find the SLOB and kick him out.

woo i dint swere once :)
 
I say Blackthornes' suggestion of the cameras is the best.

Install the cams, put up signs going into the range warning that you will be charged a fee if you don't clean up your casings. Then, just inspect the ranges at the end of each day. If you see casings that haven't been picked up, review the tapes for that day. You'll be able to identify the shooter and verify the rifle/pistol/whatever that he/she used, and go right to that person and say,

"Hey, here's a $100 fee you gotta pay for leaving your firing line a mess. If you wanna use the range again, you gotta pay this."

Point blank simple.
 
is range control so poor that you cannot go back to the day or week involved and see who was there and then start phoning ??

it is simple, member does not cleanup after themselves as per range rules then they are kicked out of the club.

does alberta have live on site caretakers ??
 
Westicle said:
is range control so poor that you cannot go back to the day or week involved and see who was there and then start phoning ??

it is simple, member does not cleanup after themselves as per range rules then they are kicked out of the club.

does alberta have live on site caretakers ??
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We don't have an onsite caretaker at our range.
We had a problem for a while of four or five guys chiping in and buying a key.
Now, most of these guys worked at either Suncor or syncrude, and made well over 1000 G's a year - or fee at the time was .....$75!!:eek:
it had nothing to do with not being able to afford a membbership, it was all about being cheap. ya thhink theyy card much of they shot the place up?
Cat
 
well then may I recommend that the executive have spot checks once in awhile at the range, make a notice stating "due to range use by non-members we will be instituting a spot check system, please have your membership card and photo ID available at all times while using range facilities"

then when they have the time the executive should drive to the range at various times to check things out, only takes drive time plus a few seconds of thier time. Thye should write down everyones name there, membership number and if they had guests and if so who those guests are.... I would even go so far as to write down license plate numbers.

if nothing more it will prove a point to the Alberta CFO's office that the executive is taking safety as a serious issue by checking who is using the range and making sure they are using it safely.
 
Well, the posting got some attention and generated some good ideas to consider. As I stated in my original post, it is desirable that we are proactive, not reactive!
I was pleased to see that some SPFGA responded because they can be very helpful in "policing" the problem and pass the word on to fellow shooters.
To set the record straight RE: some comments
Membership at the Range has been increasing in recent years (this time last year, we had about 1000 members...this year we are over 1500. There are probably many reasons for the increase but it seems that not too many feel the club is unfriendly. The proof is in the pudd'n!
The range is really kept pretty clean because a few "regulars" do pick up brass frequently. There is nothing wrong with those members "venting" about the irresponsible who do not clean up. And, the fact is that most of the problems are with the X 39 brass. And, yes, .22 shooters leave a lot of brass as well...but I am not hearing many complaints about it...no, that's not "fair", but it is a fact. Now that we have a conctrete pad on the Rimfire/Handgun Range, brass will become more visible there and concern may be raised by those who make an effort to keep the place clean.
EPS Tactical Squad uses the range and always pick up their brass and in fact remove it from the site. Too bad, it's great brass.

For those who felt "threatened" by the topic...read the initial post... my stated intent was to be proactive.

It was helpful for me to get the input provided in this thread, Hopefully, the issue of "ettiquete" can be resolved for the most part. There will likely be some problems that all ranges face that will never be resolved.
 
Westicle said:
well then may I recommend that the executive have spot checks once in awhile at the range, make a notice stating "due to range use by non-members we will be instituting a spot check system, please have your membership card and photo ID available at all times while using range facilities"

then when they have the time the executive should drive to the range at various times to check things out, only takes drive time plus a few seconds of thier time. Thye should write down everyones name there, membership number and if they had guests and if so who those guests are.... I would even go so far as to write down license plate numbers.

if nothing more it will prove a point to the Alberta CFO's office that the executive is taking safety as a serious issue by checking who is using the range and making sure they are using it safely.
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You can't regulate and be on top of things all thee time - maybe in a fairy tail world, but even cameras can get shot up.
Whatever rules a club brings in, there will be someone who will try to get around them.
We have our share of idjits, but for the most part our members now are
upstanding and self regulating.

One of the disadvantages of having a very open club and a minimum of rules
is that sometimes you get situations that arise that are less than desirable.
Cat
 
Typical anti reaction, let's ban stuff that we don't use. Here's a radical idea - pick on the guilty parties who don't pick up their brass. Cancell their membership. The Granby club I (used to) shoot at would not put up with that. We have rules and enforce them. The good guys don't pay for the bad guys. WTF???
 
Can-down said:
A sign in sheet where the shooter writes down the area he shot at, time and date, and the condition before and after of that area might help weed out the lazy shooters.
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This is the solution, IMO.

I'm always quite surprised that ranges I go to in Canada don't have a sign-in requirement. I've been to a couple that do but a lot of them don't.

You're never going to ID the people unless you have a sign-in sheet, unless you want to put CCTV on the ranges (and even then, it's hard to make out specific people unless they shoot there regularly).

Plus if you have a sign-in sheet which says on it: "you agree by signing in to keep the range clean and tidy" it does make people think twice, especially as they've left their name. It is tough on public ranges though where people just roll up. A big warning sign telling them they won't be allowed to shoot there again is better than nothing though.

Frankly it never ceases to amaze me how much brass people leave lying around that is worth serious $$$.
 
We have a sign in book at our range, the problem is that 97% of the shooters ignore it, even the members of the executive!! It appears that the more hard earned money a shooter has invested in the hobby, the higher his/her personal standards are.

The value of brass doesn't mean much to the rig pigs out here who buy cheap guns and even cheaper ammo. This area is in a boom, which unfortunately doesn't bring out the best in some people.
 
Well, that's an enforcement issue. In the UK the club can get their approval yanked if they don't have people sign in. Same in France. I wouldn't have thought it's that hard to get people to sign in. Big sign: "You must sign in".

I think I'm right in saying that in Ontario and Québec that if there's no record of your attendance, the club isn't going to be keen on getting your ATT renewed for you, right?

Just say that people have to sign in for liablity insurance reasons (which they probably do, I can't see an insurance company insuring a range if there is no record of who is using it).
 
Whether it's cameras or volunteers checking the status of any given range at the end of a shooting day, you need to crosscheck that information (if the range is a mess) with the people who signed in. A handful of occasions will be enough to make an accurate identification, at which point you can communicate with the offending parties.

There's no need to ban a caliber or rifle because a few folks don't pick up their brass.
 
Most people will be honest given a choice. There are two tactics here:
1. Police the range/hire a janitor
2. Make it easy for people to be honest and clean up after themselves

I'm lazy, so I prefer #2.
- An ugly old broom for sweeping the pad and an ugly old magnet on wheels for easily getting steel cases out of the grass will get rid of 95% of the junk and make cleanup quick for the guys shooting crates of 7.62X39.
 
Claybuster said:
Discovering who the pigs are and stopping them is a mug's game. You won't find them without considerable effort on the part of volunteers and even then the pigs probably won't clean up even if you know who they are. I've seen that happen before.

If it's the alternative between banning a type of rifle, a cartridge or the material in a cartridge casing then the later is probably the best option.

If they want to leave brass on the ground then let them. It's pretty rare for brass to be not picked up by someone.
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If you cannot discover who is leaving the steel brass behind.......

How do you propose to stop people from using guns that use steel Brass?

The ONLY plausible solution is to install Cameras....

Or put up with rusty cases on the ground.
 
The camera thing would probably not fly. Canada has some pretty strict privacy laws, which is a good thing. Recording people for the purpose of policing "rude" members is definitely not on the list of exceptions to the rule.
 
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