Rank these plastic stock stainless in terms of "value for money"

The browning then the Tikka. No question.
Remington has so many quality control issues that it would have to be far cheaper for me to even look at it. Even then I'd just buy a used quality rifle.

As someone mentioned, there is nothing you need to improve on the browning. It just is how it should be out of the box. The only rifle really for me that is in its price range that I would be interested in is a nice Model 70.
 
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Getting some great comments - thank you very much.

I will make one observation here - one of the comments mentioned that a Savage model 16 was purchased for just under 700 bucks - something has changed. I just ordered a couple model 116FCSS with accustock today and the "wholesale" price was somewhat north or 700 bucks, so by the time they are shipped/handled etc and make the shelf, they will be at or very close to the 900 bucks mark - so if you want one and see a decent price, grab it up before the lower Canuck Buck takes effect on the new stock.

Also agree with some of the comment on the price of the Tikka's and the cost of their accessories. Again, I believe that is due to the fact, that compared with the others, they are sourced from "outside" North America, which significantly adds to the cost of acquisition. Without those added import costs the T3's would probably be either equal to or somewhat less than the cost of the Remington's.

I did get some of my 2015 order in today which included a Savage and a Remington. When cycling the bolt between the two the Savage is very "sloppy" (best way I can describe it) - almost like the bolt is 2 sizes too small. In contrast, the Remington is smooth and tight.

I will also add one other comment - I realize that many on this site "hop up, re-work etc" their rifles and that may affect what you see as important (replace a barrel etc). The primary market I sell into is the HUNTER who takes a few shots a year to make sure it's zeroed in and then goes out for a week of beer drinking - I mean, Bambi hunting, so for them some of the gunsmithing and accessory concerns may never come to up as any kind of issue in the lifetime of their rifle (and while 80 bucks sounds like a lot for Tikka mag, a mag for my 740 Remington is about 60 bucks - not exactly a "deal".

I'm not saying that it isn't important, just maybe not something that is important to them if the rifle is only seeing 5 shots a year.

I do appreciate the little "quibbly" points that are being made however. That is the kind of things that I can pass along when someone is asking questions.

With your responses I can say - "while I don't have one, there are a number of owners who have said ......."

So if you have anything to add, please keep it up. Your experiences are invaluable.

PS - there was a couple of suggestions of adding the Vanguard II to this list of comparison. It is not there because of two reasons - first, they don't come in black stock (which was the group I wanted compare - ok, they are grey synthetic, but not "black" and "silver" which is an attraction for many), secondly, I can sell them for fully 100 bucks less than the Remington's (yes, the stainless Vanguard II's if I buy my years supply "up front"), so they are actually in a lower tier price point group even though I think they are a superior rifle in many aspects - I personally believe the Vanguard II's in their various configurations are THE BEST VALUE on the market, but many shoppers are Weatherby "shy".
 
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galamb said:
I will also add one other comment - I realize that many on this site "hop up, re-work etc" their rifles and that may affect what you see as important (replace a barrel etc). The primary market I sell into is the HUNTER who takes a few shots a year to make sure it's zeroed in and then goes out for a week of beer drinking - I mean, Bambi hunting, so for them some of the gunsmithing and accessory concerns may never come to up as any kind of issue in the lifetime of their rifle (and while 80 bucks sounds like a lot for Tikka mag, a mag for my 740 Remington is about 60 bucks - not exactly a "deal".

I'm not saying that it isn't important, just maybe not something that is important to them if the rifle is only seeing 5 shots a year.
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Even those bambi hunters would probably appreciate the smoother action of the Rem, Tikka or Browning if you showed them the difference.

I often wonder why gun sales people don't put some oil on the Savage bolts when they have some extra time on their hands. This makes the bolts feel a lot better. Most of the ones I've tried in stores are extremely dry and that makes them seem even worse than they are.
 
I own both the Tikka & Savage you've listed. The Tikka is like a fine Swiss Watch, refined and smooth. Whereas the Savage is more of a Timex, rough around the edges, takes a beating and keeps on.. The two are night & day from each other, yet both have their own little issues which are easily resolved (Tikka - bolt shroud From Roedale and Savage heavy action easily fixed with Frog Lube).
 
feetfats said:
I don't see the point in worrying about the recoil lug when the rifle shoots so darn good. Put the stock back on and go shoot something lol.
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Exactly, worry about rifles that can't shoot MOA out-of-the-box. There's nothing to really change on the T3. I added a metal bolt shroud "just because". I actually really like the factory plastic stock.
 
feetfats said:
My buddy's bolt shroud broke. If mine breaks I'll buy the upgrade. I've never seen any problems with the bottom metal (er. bottom plastic lol) that plastic is strong and light.
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I wanted a plastic bottom "metal". My acidic sweat can rust anything! I finally have a rifle that requires virtually no maintenance, shoots like a dream, and is accurate!
 
Retail truism: Perception is reality.
The Remington's reputation is in tatters...Doesn't matter if the gun is good or not, If people think QA is sketchy it will stay on the shelf and sell for less.
The Savage is overpriced. It was a bargain gun and marketing has driven the price past what it's worth. The barrel and receiver is stainless but you might be surprised at what isn't...
The Tikka...lots of plastic for the price but it's smooth, has a great trigger and just plain works. The extra hundred bucks is probably more attributed to it's connection to Sako more than anything else.
The Browning is the result of great marketing and a fairly polished product - what the Remington was years ago...
I think you missed the Howa/Weatherby Vanguard and the Ruger...
Not that they are much different than the 4 you have...
 
wasrupzuk said:
The Savage is overpriced. It was a bargain gun and marketing has driven the price past what it's worth. The barrel and receiver is stainless but you might be surprised at what isn't...
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Some of the Savage models still fall into a very good price category and are a great buy (ex Sav 10 FCP HS Precision). Other than that I agree with you, when priced lower than the other guns the Savages are an awesome buy because they work darn well and are extremely accurate. The Savage action makes an excellent platform for a precision rifle that needs absolutely no action truing to be a tack driver. It it is as easy as a barrel swap and a bedding job and you have a rifle that will run with or beat much more expensive setups. That to me is where the Savage value shines. I also have the personal opinion that the Savage accutrigger is one of the best factory triggers available of all of the major manufacturers in their price range. Some people hate the safety tang thing but it doesn't bother me at all.

Here is a recent Savage project I've been playing with since December. 4 shots at 200 yards. Stock action, bedded stock with a krieger barrel. Upgraded trigger but honestly not as good as the current accutriggers in my opinion.

I can cover this group with a dime. The squares are 0.250" and the group measures 0.358"

I still wouldn't choose a Savage for big game hunting but I will not speak poorly about the Savage 10 in terms of value, it is very much worth the price when used for certain applications.


ShrtRnd said:
Savage heavy action easily fixed with Frog Lube
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I am going to try some of that Frog Lube soon, I keep hearing raves about it. I know that Savages do very well with Sick Gobs of oil and many bolt cylces to remove all the nasty metal bits. With a new Savage I lube it like a dry Saigon Wh$#e and run that bolt as hard and rough as I can for about 100 reps. Then I wipe it and repeat until I stop getting all the black gunk coming off. Smooth sailing after that.



canadaman30 said:
Whats with the bolt on a T3, looks like the bolt handle could fall off as it is a horrid looking two piece bolt
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It doesn't fall off so stop over thinking it. That sucker is on there solid. This bolt is also very nice to disassemble once you figure it out. The only tool needed is a pin, drill bit or allen wrench. The shroud is crap, I will not deny that.

I will agree that the Tikka is a bit ugly but that is not what I care about at all. In a hunting rifle I care about weight, function, accuracy, and price (pretty much in that order).
 
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guido said:
There is a better choice, for less money than most of what you listed.
Weatherby s2. Best bang for the buck.
I wouldn't purchase any of the others.
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I have experience with two different Weatherby Vangaurd rifles but they were not S2. Did they make massive improvements to the S2? From my shooting experiences with the Vanguard's they were a functional hunting rifle but were extremely crude with a nasty action that makes the Savage seem smooth as silk. I would put the Vanguard into the 'low budget category' and were not in any sort of class that could even remotely compare to the rifles we are discussing here.

Value is extremely subjective and if the Vanguard fits your requirements then you have probably received great value for your dollar.
 
There have been some killer deals on Remington XCR II's lately. I've seen them for between $730 and $780. IMO those are the best seals out there right now.
 
feetfats said:
I have experience with two different Weatherby Vangaurd rifles but they were not S2. Did they make massive improvements to the S2? From my shooting experiences with the Vanguard's they were a functional hunting rifle but were extremely crude with a nasty action that makes the Savage seem smooth as silk. I would put the Vanguard into the 'low budget category' and were not in any sort of class that could even remotely compare to the rifles we are discussing here.

Value is extremely subjective and if the Vanguard fits your requirements then you have probably received great value for your dollar.
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This is the FIRST post I have ever seen that had a downside to the vanguard. Not saying your wrong, you just may have shot 2 lemons, or poorly maintained guns.
I mentioned the s2 as the made subtle improvements on trigger and stock. The action didn't need improvement. the original vanguard is no longer available.
 
guido said:
This is the FIRST post I have ever seen that had a downside to the vanguard. Not saying your wrong, you just may have shot 2 lemons, or poorly maintained guns.
I mentioned the s2 as the made subtle improvements on trigger and stock. The action didn't need improvement. the original vanguard is no longer available.
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The two guns belong to my two brothers.

One is poorly maintained and has some minor rusting.
The other is in decent shape and maintained reasonably well.

The stocks are good enough for tupperware (similar to tikka stock but slightly worse in my subjective opinion). The trigger is very far from optimal, but functional and not a problem. My real complaints are about the action. Even when cleaned and oiled there are grab spots when cycling the bolt that I would describe as worse than a Savage. Heavy oiling and cycling might help clear this up.

I haven't put either of them through a true accuracy test.

Both rifles have killed Elk very much dead but I would much rather spend a few bucks more for a smoother crisper and lighter setup. The Vanguards I've worked with are a functional hunting rifle but I don't think they are even close to being in the same league as Tikka T3 or Browning X-Bolt.

My best understanding is that both rifles were a limited run that came with the Bushnell Banner 3-9 Scope mounted and a case (but that might have been a thing the dealer was doing). They both bought around the same time. This may have been something Weatherby experimented with. I was personally surprised that Weatherby would put their name on this because I do know they have a solid reputation.
 
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feetfats said:
The two guns belong to my two brothers.

One is poorly maintained and has some minor rusting.
The other is in decent shape and maintained reasonably well.

The stocks are good enough for tupperware (similar to tikka stock but slightly worse in my subjective opinion). The trigger is very far from optimal, but functional and not a problem. My real complaints are about the action. Even when cleaned and oiled there are grab spots when cycling the bolt that I would describe as worse than a Savage. Heavy oiling and cycling might help clear this up.

I haven't put either of them through a true accuracy test.

Both rifles have killed Elk very much dead but I would much rather spend a few bucks more for a smoother crisper and lighter setup. The Vanguards I've worked with are a functional hunting rifle but I don't think they are even close to being in the same league as Tikka T3 or Browning X-Bolt.
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The Tikka and Browning have detach mags. Not my thing. The savage also has the detach mag, but its a savage, so doesn't even belong in the convo. I own rem 700's and vanguards. I wouldn't buy an sps unless I could go through a couple dozen to find a good one. So the winner is none of the above.
 
guido said:
The Tikka and Browning have detach mags. Not my thing. The savage also has the detach mag, but its a savage, so doesn't even belong in the convo. I own rem 700's and vanguards. I wouldn't buy an sps unless I could go through a couple dozen to find a good one. So the winner is none of the above.
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The criteria you use to select a hunting rifle is certainly different than mine.

For myself I love detach mag because I regularly transition between foot and boat and want the fast and easy ability to comply with our laws. When hunting in the mountains we come down off the hill and take a boat ride back to camp, drop the mag when I get in the boat and pop it back in when I get out, snap done. If you decide to not follow transport laws (or just plain forget) and the fuzz rolls up it's also way easier and less conspicuous to empty out a gun that has a detach mag than one that doesn't. I hunt in fairly remote areas but the law seems to have a nice budget around here and they like to swoop in with helicopters and jetboats.
 
The talk about fast mag changes, deer can hear your bolt are laughable. Are we talking about hunting here? When an animal hears the bolt close on my savage after the first shot it's likely the last sound it hears. And a mag change! really! anyone that needs to change mags either just got out of their F150 or they need some time at the range and in the field. Had an x bolt stainless stalker, not all that accurate and it would eject a round before coming back far enough to pick up another, tried this on another on the shelf and it was the same....sold it. Remington is great for aftermarket support and they make a good rifle, nothing wrong them other than the action may need truing to compete with a savage. The Tikka is way just a bunch of plastic junk that will perform alright for a while and they're light. For the OP, the slop in the savage bolt is a good thing. It doesn't need to be tight, it has a floating bolt head, something none of the others have. This allows extra clearance for when dirt and debris get in the action, and it allows the bolt head to self align with the bore when fired (why they don't need a 400.00 true up job). The mags are a bit crude on the savage and it would be nice if they'd deal with this. I shoot blind mag and hinged floor plate models for this reason.

Anyway the list for me is.

Savage
Remington (very close and if we were talking a little further up in $ it'd be #1)
Tikka
Browning.
 
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