Rank these plastic stock stainless in terms of "value for money"

Where we hunt there is an abnormally high concentration of Grizzly bears. Our hunting party has had two separate serious situations with bears in the last 5 years. In the one case the bear was destroyed and nobody got hurt. In the second case the Bear was doing a false charge and stopped at about 50 yards. We've also seen more than one adult Grizzly hanging out together so having attacks from multiple bears at the same time is very possible. I feel better having a second magazine ready to go and I want a platform that will allow me to change them out fast. This is how I like my equipment to be setup after many years of experience in the woods. Suggesting that I need more range time is plain foolish, the last time I ordered gun powder the shipping company used a fork lift to bring it to my truck.

As far as the bolt noise goes, it sounds like you carry with a round in the pipe. Not everyone does that so a quiet bolt is very nice to chamber the first round.

So you're scared of being killed by grizz, but hunt with your ammo in your pocket?

I'm not trying to get into an argument, to each their own. For me, if I can't put whatever it is down with four rounds of 7mag or 300wsm then I deserve to be eaten anyway
 
So you're scared of being killed by grizz, but hunt with your ammo in your pocket?

I'm not trying to get into an argument, to each their own. For me, if I can't put whatever it is down with four rounds of 7mag or 300wsm then I deserve to be eaten anyway


Don't be ridiculous, I have ammo in the gun and I have a spare magazine in my pocket.
 
2.) Savage
Cons: Same two position safety issue as Remington, the action and barrel nut design (while accurate) are FUGLY and aesthetically unpleasing to the eye.

Savage has a three position safety, so other than it being ugly (which is more of an opinion than fact) Savage wins... :cool:
 
Where we hunt there is an abnormally high concentration of Grizzly bears. Our hunting party has had two separate serious situations with bears in the last 5 years. In the one case the bear was destroyed and nobody got hurt. In the second case the Bear was doing a false charge and stopped at about 50 yards. We've also seen more than one adult Grizzly hanging out together so having attacks from multiple bears at the same time is very possible. I feel better having a second magazine ready to go and I want a platform that will allow me to change them out fast. This is how I like my equipment to be setup after many years of experience in the woods. Suggesting that I need more range time is plain foolish, the last time I ordered gun powder the shipping company used a fork lift to bring it to my truck.

As far as the bolt noise goes, it sounds like you carry with a round in the pipe. Not everyone does that so a quiet bolt is very nice to chamber the first round.

Just how many aimed shots do you think that you can shoot at a charging grizzly, before he reaches you?
 
Just how many aimed shots do you think that you can shoot at a charging grizzly, before he reaches you?

One, none I don't know?? ask the guy that finds my body to count the brass on the ground?
Maybe mr bear is eating my friends face and I want to try and kill the bear, maybe the stress of the situation will cause me to not hit vitals right away.

If you are happy with 3 rounds that's cool, I like a few more. I don't know why I keep getting bashed about this.


How did this turn into a bear defence thread? :)

It's a fairly perceivable use for a hunting rifle. It doesn't happen very often but I know quite a few people that have been charged or surprised by grizzly bears and luckily didn't get hurt. I like features in a hunting rifle that are helpful for a situation like that.
 
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If I was trying to point out the key features that warrant the costs of the various rifles, it would start with:

1.) Remington 700
Pros: It is a good solid entry rifle, easy to smith (almost every smith in Canada can work with this particular action), easy to get parts for both factory and aftermarket, and easy to operate, generally very accurate and come with good easily adjustable triggers.

Cons: Two position safety forces the user to to take the weapon off safe to unload, Bottom hinged floorplate is a PITA for hunting if you move stands frequently, No guarantee that the barrel is free-floated and the action is not bedded.

In general, not a bad rifle and it is very easily upgradeable with readily available parts.

2.) Savage
Pros: Good trigger with very good accuracy out of the box, Detachable magazine is reliable, the rifle has excellent parts availability and aftermarket support. Some of these rifles have not come with a freefloating barrel so it would need to confirmed before leaving the store...

Cons: Same two position safety issue as Remington, the action and barrel nut design (while accurate) are FUGLY and aesthetically unpleasing to the eye.

In general it is worth the extra money to go up from the Remington to the Savage dollarwise as the additional features make it worth the extra money.

3,) Tikka
Pros: Excellent build from a quality European company, excellent trigger, fairly good parts availability but limited aftermarket support, and the barrel will come from the factory freefloating

Cons: Same two position safety as the above two, Plastic bottom parts, one size fits all action size (sorry this is lame for anything in the small action family calibres), expensive magazines to replace.

In general it is questionable if it is worth paying more for this particular rifle than for a Savage as it isn't a given that a Tikka will outshoot a Savage but I would give the edge to the Savage for accuracy as their ugly barrel nut design is actually very practical in producing good accuracy.

Browning:

Pros: 8 mounting screws vice 4 for scope mounts, action is bedded from the factory, barrel is freefloated from the factory, two position safety with a bolt release that allows unloading of the rifle from a safe position
Cons: Limited part selection, availability of aftermarket parts, cost of magazines

In general, it would be worthwhile to upgrade from any of the above 3 rifles, if only for the included bedding of the action (aftermarket bedding is an additional 150-200 bucks and none of the first three rifles comes with this option). I am not sold that you need to have 4 mounting screws per mount but it is reassuring to know that my bases won't be a problem. I personally like the fit and finish of Browning firearms and consider it a step up from Savage and Remington's SPS line but on par with Tikka.

The Remington is a 2 position safety but can be opened when in safe.

The Savage is a 3 postion safety and can be opened when safe, also features bolt lock

The Tikka is a 2 postion safety and does require to be off safe to unload
 
Are you not considering the Savage 16 Trophy Hunter XP, which is substantially cheaper than both the 16 FCSS and Rem 700 SPS Stainless? No accustock, and plastic trigger guard and magwell, but otherwise the same as the 16 FCSS "Weather Warrior", and you get a "free" scope for your rimfire... :p
 
You guys do realize he was talking about defending against a griz bear???

Yup!, but you didn't say anything about it, you just asked,
"A spare mag. What for????"

I told you what for.........
 
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Are you not considering the Savage 16 Trophy Hunter XP, which is substantially cheaper than both the 16 FCSS and Rem 700 SPS Stainless? No accustock, and plastic trigger guard and magwell, but otherwise the same as the 16 FCSS "Weather Warrior", and you get a "free" scope for your rimfire... :p

What I was doing with these four rifles, all of which we carry, was to group ones with a similar "price range".

In retail the bean counters can give you a zillion different takes on customers and what sells etc.

With our rifles there is the "under $500" crowd, the 500-700 etc.

These four were taken from the (msrp) 900-1200 group and specifically with black stocks and stainless barrels and was just looking for a rating between these "specific" four rifles.

Yes, this is a very narrow group and there is lot's of other fine rifles outside of that group, but not what I was looking information on.

When "Bob" comes in, looking to "upgrade" and Bob's brother told him he needs a black stocked, stainless rifle, and to spend about a grand on it give or take a bit, this is what I can offer Bob, in that narrow set of parameters.

Would I "personally" buy one of these, NO, but that wasn't what I was asking about - I was/am looking for constructive comparisons so that I can say to Bob, "From guys who own these, this is what there experience is"...

It's not more complicated than that. And when I can sell a Walnut Stocked Wby VGII for less than the lowest priced of this group I can't understand why they want some black plastic - but it seems nowadays, if Bob has a grand or so to spend, this is what he wants because someone has convinced him it's what he "needs".

Wood is bad, blued is bad and if the stock is plastic, it better be black - that's what is selling...
 
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