Rat shot for a revolver?

[jethunter]

I am fully aware of the wiki and the size differences, I have both at my home.

Can you please explain the stepped cylinder then with a .442 bullet heeled bullet and a bore that is .429? 13 thou compression before exiting the cylinder then 13 thou bump out to just engage the rifling seems insane.

The bore was slugged, a soft lead .430 bullet fits is perfectly and passed through the cylinder step easily.

This is not a British gun, this is an American gun.

As I said earlier - 44 webley is all over the place with heeled and non-heeled versions, which are the inside and outside lubricated versions you are talking about. If the bore and throat are .430" then just load a light .44 (.430") lead bullet or shot projectile to a case length and OAL that fits your and go for it. Should be fairly straight forward and you shouldn't need a bottleneck.

Lots of .430" lead bullets around but most of them might be heavier than you need.

Why did Iver Johnson put a short step in a long cylinder? These were not especially strong actions as you already noted. Maybe they were purposely limiting the power of the cartridge because longer cartridges had caused problems. Or maybe it was another reason entirely, who knows. A friend has a revolver much like yours but the bore in his is .425". IJ maybe wasn't top of the line in quality control.

 

[Fox]

Ok, lets start from the beginning.

The gun is a first model Iver Johnson, made between 1878 and 1882 based on the designation on the top strap when compared to the book "Iver Johnson Arms and Cycle Works Handguns 1871-1978", this book I picked up to use as evidence for antique status.

I got home and pulled the cylinder once again on the gun. The Cylinder from back face to front face measures 1.252", not long enough for a 44 Russian but longer than needed for a 44 Webley and also the 38 S&W that these guns were also chambered in, I assume they just put in a different cylinder and different timing.

There is a step in the Cylinder, this is at the .92" distance from the back face of the Cylinder, which will fit a .97" case length of 44 Russian but not the COAL of a 44 Russian, unless you were to use a very short bullet. It is possible that in 135+ years someone milled the cylinder to fit a 44 Russian case but a 44 Russian round as we know it now will not fit at all.

I have 2 44 Webley originals here, the one has a head stamp of W.R.A Co 44 Web, it has a length of 1.163" and fits perfectly in the Cylinder, all be it with a generous headspace when the cylinder is in the gun. The other is a Rem-UMC 44 Web headstamp, it measures 1.114" and fits perfectly in the Cylinder. Both of these rounds would swage down a tad as they are heeled with a .432 bullet at the largest. I assume that this gun was designed to work with both the larger heeled 442 RIC and the 44 Webley inside lubricated bullet in this case.

The 44 Webley does fit in this gun.

The idea of a stepped or necked case was to do essentially the same thing as is shown in the below link to increase the capacity of the case with the shot sitting on a mild FFFg load.

http://john1911.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/DSCN2412.jpg

It is not a bottle necked case except if I were to make a rat shot load, the case is a case with a max of 0.97" overall length and a cartridge overall length of 1.163".

Since the 12-15gr of FFFg compressed works best in this gun to a case length of 0.74" which has a decent compression on the black powder and allows the bullet to crimp into the crimp groove of the 200gr soft lead black powder lubed bullets that I am using.

Does this all make sense now?

This is not a 44 Russian, this does not make sense to be a 44 bulldog only but the cylinder is cut odd for simply a 44 webley 0.657" case length.

 

[jethunter]

It's an Iver Johnson. All kinds of variations for who knows what reasons but I'd suspect that they didn't throw out any mistakes. If the factory made a mistake on cylinder dimensions this week, then that's what got sold next week.

You're just looking for a light ratshot load and doesn't seem worth the effort of making a bottleneck for that but if it's what you want. I would build a cartridge to the dimensions that fit with the least messing around but that's just me. I realise now I should have let you get on with it instead of trying to help. My mistake.

 

[Fox]

Sorry if there was some confusion, it does fit a standard factory loaded 44 Webley, there is just extra room for a longer case in the cylinder, a case length the same as a 44 Russian but not a 44 Russian loaded cartridge.