Rational choice for a Dangerous Game Rifle

oddione

oddione

Regular
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
Location
Ottawa, ON
Hello gentlemen. This is my first post in years in the Hunting section.

A friend of mine now lives in Mozambique and has developed connections for Cape Buffalo hunting. He has invited me over but he owns no firearms and I'd have to buy one here, bring it there, then bring it back.

So basically I need a rifle which is adequate to take down this type of dangerous game. I'm not too worried about a follow up shot as the guide will also have a rifle, but I sure wouldn't mind it.

I need the rifle to be useful when I come back to Canada. Think polar bears.

I already have a falling block 45-70 in my wish list, would this cut it for cape buffalo?

My friend tells me .375H&H is very popular.

Cost is also a VERY important factor. This is a rifle I will use very little. Therefore I don't care about the cost of the ammo. I cannot see myself spending a dime over $1000 on this rifle. I heard there were some converted p14/k98 actions that could be found used?

Right now the largest caliber rifle I own is a 30.06 and I shoot .308 every week. (God I love 308..)

Since I am most likely only going to have one dangerous game rifle, I'd like it to pack as much punch as my budget and common sense will allow. I'd rather stay away from "exotic" calibers and stick with something main stream.

Suggestions?



UPDATE(post 29):

I am also a private pilot and I travel to Iqaluit once a year (in the right seat..) with a friend. I've never seen a polar bear but I always wondered what would happen if we got stranded on some lake (we use skis on an #####) and polar bears were around. My pilot friend does not own guns.

As for grizzlies, I've gone once to Yukon with my uncle who is an entomologist (chases rare butterflies) and I carried around a 12ga pump (Winchester Defender.) That I never had to use (although we saw quite a few grizzlies.)

As for Africa, I AM going to do this trip on a budget. I would be willing to bump up my budget to 1500 only if that rifle can double as a bear gun. My friend's "Connection" will take us out for free and he is a retired guide. (I think he owes my friend a favor or something)

I'm sure there are other fees that will make my trip a lot more expensive than I had planned, but I'd rather go on a budget than not go at all.

The same uncle who hunt butterflies wants to go to Africa to chase them there in the next 5 years. We had the idea of a dual purpose trip (I hunt game he hunts butterflies and I watch out for dangerous game)

Not this summer, but the next one, I have a trip planned to the Yukon again with the same story.

I also weight 300lbs 6'2" so even through recoil might be painful, I don't think it will knock me over.

I am also fully set up for reloading
 
Last edited:
To Ontario Gunner:
3006 is not approved by the government of Mozambique for Cape Buffalo. It has to be a big bore rifle.

To Dorian Gray:
Are you referring to the .270 WIN? I didn't know that was appropriate for dangerous game. What does it have over a 3006 or a 308? I also do not think it is approved for the big 5.

But thanks!
 
oddione said:
To Dorian Gray:
Are you referring to the .270 WIN? I didn't know that was appropriate for dangerous game. What does it have over a 3006 or a 308? I also do not think it is approved for the big 5.

But thanks!
Click to expand...

I think you looked at the wrong end of the list (please forgive the spacing, I just copied and pasted from Elwood Epps site)

"NG53213 ZASTAVA Z98 WALNUT BOLT .375 H&H 22" BLUED FINISH, WALNUT STOCK, DRILL & TAPPED FOR SCOPE MOUNT, STEEL FLOOR PLATE MAGAZINE, CLAW EXTRACTOR N 718.80 NR"
 
trubluscrew said:
I think you looked at the wrong end of the list (please forgive the spacing, I just copied and pasted from Elwood Epps site)

"NG53213 ZASTAVA Z98 WALNUT BOLT .375 H&H 22" BLUED FINISH, WALNUT STOCK, DRILL & TAPPED FOR SCOPE MOUNT, STEEL FLOOR PLATE MAGAZINE, CLAW EXTRACTOR N 718.80 NR"
Click to expand...

Ah yes I see it now. Gee that is a nice rifle.

After watching a few youtube videos of cape buffalos charging, notably this one:
h ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Ge_bW-feE

I wonder if a larger, big bore rifle. Such as .458 Winchester Magnum, might be appropriate. I already have a scoped 30-06 which can handle all North American big game. So now I'm thinking more of a big bore, Grizzly or Polar rifle to be used at very close range to save one's life if charged. A guide gun really.

What about 45-70?
 
4570 will kill one but it lacks the punch. A 458 wm will be a fine choice and they are availible used in the ruger #1 or cz 550. A 375hh will work if legal. I've handled those zastava 375s and found a lot of play in the bolt. For the price its decent
 
those zastava's look like they only have a single crossbolt for stock strength. Most of the big bore guns I see have 2 (to help with recoil distribution throughout the stock, and keep it from a single point , where it will eventually crack the wood)
Just a thought, to keep in mind. Don't worry about "play" in the bolt, as those are Mauser based actions ( with controlled round feed) and there is natural "slop" or wiggle in the bolt. (it's meant to be that way)
Also, .375 H & H may be the legal MINIMUM for cape buffalo. Check the regs before you decide. A 22" barrel may drop your velocity somewhat and also your Bullet energy versus a more traditional 24 or 26" barrel that are on most magnum guns. (magnum rounds use slow powders and require a longer barrel to burn it all before the bullet leaves the barrel) It may just cause you to send unburnt powder out the barrel behind the bullet. No big deal, but , If I was to hunt "Ol' big nasty" , I'd want every F/S and ft/lb my bullet could achieve before impact.
 
Personally, I wouldn't rent an unknown rifle to go hunt dangerous game, just asking for trouble. Not knowing the guns little intricacies and not being familiar with the controls can just be a perfect recipe for disaster when faced with a big nasty.
Take a gun you know personally. One that you can use with your eyes closed. One that you have tested and know its ins and outs. Borrow one from a friend and use that first (if you truly can't afford a new/used appropriate gun) before just renting an unknown gun in a foreign country with unknown maintenance done on it.
All the same.........I can't imagine someone hunting dangerous game , even on a friends freebee, and cheaping out on the gun. If you aren't confident with a big bore before you leave , it certainly isn't gonna happen in some makeshift range to check zero in mozambique before you head out to hunt the animals. Safari dreams on walmart budgets are not always safest. Sounds like you need to do quite a bit of research before you face off with the big capers. I probably came off sounding like a ####, but in the interest of your safety, and the safety of those around you while on a hunt, I want to make sure you see all points of interest.
 
I would be inclined to look for a good used .416, either Remington or Rigby. Very unlikely these would have been shot very much at all. Buy the rifle, learn to shoot it, make your trip, sell the rifle. You end up basically paying rent for having the rifle for a while.
 
45-70 has done it before bt it is a marginal choice. Even rather stout loads for the 4-70 have more than 1000 ft/lbs less energy than the .375 H&H at the muzzle and the .375 H&H is considered the legal minimum based on bore size. 45-70 has the larger bore but less energy.

The 375 would be a good choice in my mind. It is one of the most popular for a reason, it is pleasant enough to shoot, ammo is easily found around the world, it has the power if you make the right shot, and it was designed as a safari caliber.

FWIW I have a Zastava Mauser 98 and I find it to be a good rifle. It does lack the cross bolts that are often found on heavier recoiling rifles, but you can pick them up for cheap from Brownells (or wherever) and have them installed. If you don't go down this path, make sure the action screws are appropriately tightened to correct levels, this can help to prevent stock splitting. These rifles were made on the old FN tooling apparently, the tooling that made the Browning Safari's when FN was making them. THe only thing that I don't like is the lack of a 3 position safety. I find when carrying it, and I unsling it the bold opens from time to time.
 
sgt.rock said:
Personally, I wouldn't rent an unknown rifle to go hunt dangerous game, just asking for trouble. Not knowing the guns little intricacies and not being familiar with the controls can just be a perfect recipe for disaster when faced with a big nasty.
Click to expand...

This is Exactly correct... DO NOT even think about renting a gun!

jsquig said:
45-70 has done it before bt it is a marginal choice.
Click to expand...

.45/70 is not an appropriate choice (not that it can't do it)... I say this because this trip is likely to be the trip of a lifetime for you, and it is going to be very expensive... cutting corners with your weapon of choice represents VERY bad economy...

The shots on Buffalo are likely to be under 150 yards... an ideal scenario for a clean "ONE SHOT" kill... look at the Ruger #1 Tropical... seen here;

http://ca.wholesalesports.com/store...-rifles/no-1-h-tropical-rifle/prod102345.html

This gun is on sale for $799 in .375 H&H and .416... you will be hard pressed to find a more durable, reliable rifle of this quality in these calibers for under $800... If I were you, I would jump all over this.

You might also consider the Ruger 77 Hawkeye African in .375 Ruger (it would be the No.1 Tropical for me)... if you are looking for a bolt action repeater;

http://ca.wholesalesports.com/store...keye-dangerous-game/prod240435.html#reviewTab
 
Most countries the 375/9.3 caliber is miniumum for dangerous game. Some have a 416 miniumum check what you can use before you buy. I would not go smaller then a 375 even if I was allowed.
 
I took my Cape Buffalo bull with .375 H&H, and I wouldn't offer any other option for you aside from the .375 Ruger. Reason being, you are unfamiliar with 'real' recoil being a .30-06 class shooter and a .416 or .458 while lovely for Cape Buffalo will very likely be beyond what you can handle, as you say yourself you do not intend to shoot this much (don't care about cost of ammo etc). .375 H&H also has the exact same trajectory as your .308 and .30-06. You will still have to shoot your new rifle a great deal, ideally several hundred rounds from offhand, kneeling, and standing off shooting sticks, to be proficient for your hunt. It would be completely asinine to travel to Africa with a new medium or large bore you don't have experience with (happens a lot, and PHs hate those guys), and get in close and wound a Buffalo for lack of practice.

A Ruger African in .375 Ruger is in your price range, skip the Alaskan at your experience level, you will develop a flinch with it as it is quite light and recoils a tad briskly for shooters new to medium bores. I am very leery of guys apparently quite unversed in Africa saying they want a cheap rifle to hunt dangerous game and they don't want to pay for much ammo to practice with it. To be honest I'm not sure what to make of your post, and please don't take this as an insult, but it doesn't sound likely you'll actually go through with it. Polar Bears, Grizzlies, in Ottawa? I don't presume you don't travel, just curious what you do that brings you in contact with the great bears, a geologist perhaps?

Good luck, if you go as far booking your plane ticket, don't sweat $1,000 for practice ammunition. Without it, you really shouldn't be going. Have fun with your new rifle and shoot straight.

DSCF2400.jpg
 
sgt.rock said:
Personally, I wouldn't rent an unknown rifle to go hunt dangerous game, just asking for trouble. Not knowing the guns little intricacies and not being familiar with the controls can just be a perfect recipe for disaster when faced with a big nasty.
Take a gun you know personally. One that you can use with your eyes closed. One that you have tested and know its ins and outs. Borrow one from a friend and use that first (if you truly can't afford a new/used appropriate gun) before just renting an unknown gun in a foreign country with unknown maintenance done on it.
All the same.........I can't imagine someone hunting dangerous game , even on a friends freebee, and cheaping out on the gun. If you aren't confident with a big bore before you leave , it certainly isn't gonna happen in some makeshift range to check zero in mozambique before you head out to hunt the animals.
Safari dreams on walmart budgets are not always safest. Sounds like you need to do quite a bit of research +before you face off with the big capers. I probably came off sounding like a ####, but in the interest of your safety, and the safety of those around you while on a hunt, I want to make sure you see all points of interest.
Click to expand...

This exactly. :agree:

Considering all the criteria you have set forward, it's difficult to imagine a better choice than a .375 (H&H or Ruger). Legal for dangerous game, effective, much more versatile than a .458, easier/cheaper to shoot than a .416 (really the only other reasonable choice) and available in lots of different makes and models. Perfect.
 
a lot of these( and what i know is 3rd hand information only) is that a lot of these countries that harbour dangerous game have it figured out so that the gun and ammo are part of the "package" ie you rent the gun along with the rest of it- all that being said, i'd use a gun that was DEVELOPED for dangerous game, ie the 460 weatherby or the winchester model 70 in 458 - there's a lot of places that state that the minimum bore is 40- so your 44-40 is legal , but your 375/378 30s are not,even though it makes no sense from a hunters pov
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom