RCMP Pistol Trials

Craig0ry said:
Very interesting list, its not too old. Some interesting ones in there, Nice to see some P99's on the list, along with some nice H&K's I feel bad for the PEI boys stuck with a Ruger p85
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Yup! They are on an island after. The P85 can sub for a boat anchor also.

On another note, interested to hear what the Glock naysayers would say to this list? Just about every dept. in BC has the 22! Don't hear about too many kabooms and NDs into legs stories here.
 
I agree that the Glock 22 has major popularity among LEO agencies up here. I would like to know their rational for .40 over 9mm, I have shot with a few of the LEO's here and both of them shoot a lot better with my 17 and they could with their 22.
 
Craig0ry said:
I agree that the Glock 22 has major popularity among LEO agencies up here. I would like to know their rational for .40 over 9mm, I have shot with a few of the LEO's here and both of them shoot a lot better with my 17 and they could with their 22.
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I know Abby PD is switching to the G17 soon. It seems the .40S&W flavour may be getting stale. There might be fewer Depts. using the .40 at their next round of pistol purchases.
 
Still alive said:
I know Abby PD is switching to the G17 soon. It seems the .40S&W flavour may be getting stale. There might be fewer Depts. using the .40 at their next round of pistol purchases.
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The .40 S&W was developed for the FBI in the aftermath of the infamous Miami shootout of 1986 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout. A "lesson learned", at that time, was that the 9mm didn't have enough stopping power, and so 10mm Auto was experimented with, but was too "hot to handle" for most agents, so the .40 S&W was developed - basically just a shorter cased 10mm - as something more than the 9mm but less than the 10mm Auto. Once adopted by the FBI, many, if not most, police forces followed suit.

Now, however, the FBI has readopted the 9mm, given that modern ammo makes the 9mm just as effective as the .40 S&W, while being easier to shoot for most. So, .40 S&W is indeed "getting stale".
 
Just read the wiki article about the Miami shootout, That is insane. Iam surprised a feature length movie was never made about it(other than the NBC TV movie), for as long as their crime spree was and the agents tracking them it would make a good movie.
 
Craig0ry said:
Very interesting list, its not too old. Some interesting ones in there, Nice to see some P99's on the list, along with some nice H&K's I feel bad for the PEI boys stuck with a Ruger p85
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I couldn't get over how many time SIG was misspelled, lol.

Out of curiosity, are there any militaries or police that carry the S&W M&P?
 
From Wikipedia (M&P in Canada). Did not verify though.

Halton Regional Police Service
Peel Regional Police
Bank of Canada protective services
St. Thomas Police Service
Gatineau Police Department
Greater Sudbury Police Service
GardaWorld Cash Services (Ontario Only)
Brinks Canada
 
Forest1488 said:
From Wikipedia (M&P in Canada). Did not verify though.

Halton Regional Police Service
Peel Regional Police
Bank of Canada protective services
St. Thomas Police Service
Gatineau Police Department
Greater Sudbury Police Service
GardaWorld Cash Services (Ontario Only)
Brinks Canada
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U sure those guys aren't still carrying M&P revolvers in 38 S&W? Would not surprise me one bit.

M
 
Craig0ry said:
I agree that the Glock 22 has major popularity among LEO agencies up here. I would like to know their rational for .40 over 9mm, I have shot with a few of the LEO's here and both of them shoot a lot better with my 17 and they could with their 22.
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Ontario police pressured gov't for a change from revolver to semi auto. Approval specified a clean slide (no safety) DAO and 40cal, as I recall.
 
Craig0ry said:
Just read the wiki article about the Miami shootout, That is insane. Iam surprised a feature length movie was never made about it(other than the NBC TV movie), for as long as their crime spree was and the agents tracking them it would make a good movie.
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If you have Netflix, check out "the F.B.I. Files", episode 24, "Firefight"
 
RPIcka said:
The advances in Bullet and ammo technology make 9mm the better choice compared to .40. Less recoil, less muzzle blast means timid shooters have a better chance of getting on target.
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...Plus it's more readily/widely available....There was a bit a challenge in establishing a quality and reliable source of ammunition with the +P SWC, and the prices just kept getting higher, and the Suppliers fewer and fewer. Where as the 9mm, was performance and ballistically close enough to the then issued 38SPL, which had a proven track record, and in the Pistol, offered a greater capacity, and the promise of continuing supply sources, and development was clearly on going.....David K
 
Craig0ry said:
I agree that the Glock 22 has major popularity among LEO agencies up here. I would like to know their rational for .40 over 9mm, I have shot with a few of the LEO's here and both of them shoot a lot better with my 17 and they could with their 22.
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When most PD's went to semi autos in the mid 90's, .40 did have an edge on 9mm of the day. Since manufacturers have developed all of their service loads to perform within the FBI specs, 9mm offers a lot of advantages over other cartridges and still offers good ballistic performance.

Another reason .40 was chosen was regulation. When BC allowed semi auto's the Police Act mandated .40. Some Provinces at the time even mandated the pistol. Iirc Sask. at the time was required to use Glock 22 for Provincial and municipal agencies. BC changed the Regs a few years back to allow .40 or 9mm.
 
Still alive said:
Piperdown,
Who wrote the Police Act for BC to adopt the .40 back then?
Pencil pushers or street cops?
Was there definitive research done before the adoption?
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As I recall there was a Provincial committee, and there would have been some knowledgable people involved as well as research. 40 was being touted as the greatest thing at the time, Miami was still in recent memory, and the FBI results would have had a big impact. Having said that the FBI also spearheaded the 10mm gong show, and I won't even consider a Glock 17M until the bugs are truly worked out.
 
Kidd X said:
Can any members or former members shed some light on why 9mm was chosen? Seems the RCMP were/are ahead of their time in this choice.
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This report suggests that the RCMP found the best 9mm loads available at the time to be "good enough". That is to say, at least as good as the old .38 Special +P 158 grain hollow point. Also, I suspect that ammunition commonality with the MP5, as mentioned in the report, may have been a factor.

http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2008/ps-sp/PS63-2-1995-1E.pdf
 
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