Re-barrel / Re-chamber a Ross 1905

Nice machining!
Perhaps the rounds won't extract because the boltface and extractor are set up for a rimmed cartridge with a larger rim diameter.
If .25-06 seems to feed, but is too long for the magazine, how about something based on the 7mm Mauser? .257 Roberts, 6mm Remington, etc?
 
tiriaq said:
Nice machining!
Perhaps the rounds won't extract because the boltface and extractor are set up for a rimmed cartridge with a larger rim diameter.
If .25-06 seems to feed, but is too long for the magazine, how about something based on the 7mm Mauser? .257 Roberts, 6mm Remington, etc?
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Thanks!

I believe you are right about the size difference affecting the extraction. Initially, the extractor grabs on to the casing enough to start pulling back, but it falls away from the extractor before being fully extracted.

My first choice would actually be the 243 if I can get it to feed and extract properly. But the 6mm Rem sounds pretty slick too. I think I need to read up on that one a little more.

Thanks for the suggestion!

My aim is essentially for a varmint calibre. I'm pretty sure a 22-250 would work as well as the 243, but I think the casings would suffer the same feeding/extracting issues as the 243.
 
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The Mk 3 blueprints say 12 tpi?
 
Very nice work! Should be no problem at all in steel then, right?

If the 6mm will work, then one would think the 7X57 might, too. Then we could have a thread on a Ross 275 Rigby, as well as the one on the Norwegian Krag 275 Rigby. ;)

Ted
 
ssapach said:
Before anyone speaks up, I know it's only aluminium and I am not going to fire any rounds through it. It's just a practice piece to see if I could actually do it.

Just happened to have the gears for 3 TPI. Ground a tool bit and gave it a try!

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Feel free to criticize. As I said, this was just for practice to see if I could handle the threads and how well the receiver would accept them. I might have to try a piece of steel to see how well my cutting tip will handle it.
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sweet mother of god.....

how did I miss this.

I have a 1905R sporter that destroys brass and the throat is several inches of free bore.

I was thinking of having Ron Smith do a rebore but if you can machine the 3 TPI left hand buttress threads....... Oh your my newest best friend...... :D
 
I don't see why a CNC program could not be created to cut this thread, not to mention that kidney shaped relief on the rear face of the barrel and the extractor slot.

Good job ssapach; they did it then, we should be able to do it now.

The 1905 action was proofed up to 27 tons - not sure if that was 27 times 2000 lbs or 2200 lbs, but it's plenty.

There must be someone in Canada with the qualifications to reheat treat these old actions, perhaps as part of a case colour treatment. Looking at the M1910 actions they seem to have been case hardened/coloured up to the receiver ring, at least some of them. A crack test might be a good idea too after a hundred years of life.

I also have too many shot out 1905s that need a new lease on life. A run of barrels might just sell well considering how easy they are to change in most of the MkII (1905) rifles: undo the screw, rap on the receiver ring and unscrew by hand!
 
The original machining was done with purpose built one operation machine tools. I have a reprint of a period article describing manufacture of the Mk. II Ross.
A modest run of barrels would probably find a ready market.
The suggestion was made to use the 7x57R. There is a whole series of European cartridges based on the rimmed version of the Mauser case; these were used primarily in single shot and tip up rifles. These rounds might be a good choice for the magazine and boltface.
Shortened, bad bored barrels aren't particularly useful. Salvaging the barrel shank from one might be easier than copying the thread. Will have to check to see what the maximum thread diameter might be for such recycling. I would be inclined to single point the thread to 90% or so, and then finish with a tap.
 
The 6.5x53R AKA .256 mannlicher cartridge uses the 303 case head if your leaning towards a smaller round. Ken Waters did a good article on forming cases and loading.

603px-1911_Britannica_-_Cartridges.png
 
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I think it helps that the lathe I'm using is from 1917. Not even sure on the low range speed, but it's probably somewhere around 50-60 rpm and I happened to have the correct gear combo for 3 tpi. The carriage still motors along quickly when the half nut is engaged, definitely have to be paying attention when doing this as there isn't a lot of time or space for runaway. On the plus side, cutting the thread is somewhat fast.....although that was just aluminium. Steel might be a whole other ball game here. All I'm using is a piece of HSS ground to fit the original barrel threads and all held together in a period correct tool holder and lantern style tool post. Nothing fancy exactly.

As far as cartridge, with a bit of messing around last night I got the 243 to fit and feed from the mag fairly well. I bought a box of 6mm Rem just to check out (I couldn't find any snap caps and this probably cost as much) and they seemed to fit and feed just nicely. At this point I realized that the 243 wasn't feeding nicely because they weren't sitting level to the rest of the action, so a little tweaking of the bottom plate in the internal mag got them sitting a little better. When I was hunting for the 6mm ammo I quickly realized the substantial difference in availability versus the 243, hence why I am now mostly focused on getting the 243 to work and feed properly.

A small modification to the extractor seemed to help in removing the casing from the chamber. As well, I threaded the end of my aluminium "barrel" so that I could put a bolt in the end and adjust my headspacing by tightening the bolt. Between that and the extractor mod, it seemed to be on the right track to get the cartridges to extract. Not 100% just yet, but at least getting there. Of course this will lead up to the ejector not being able to full kick the spent cartridge out of the action. It simply just knocks it free of the bolt/extractor and it lands back on top of the mag.

If this all works out in the end, I might have to get my hands on a couple more and try out different cartridges. It's one thing to make it all fit and function, but if the rifle isn't accurate at the end of the day, it would all be for nothing.
 
Tried a piece of 4130 steel. Lathe and tools seemed to handle it until I grabbed the wrong point with the half nut and ruined my threads and damaged the cutting tip.

Although cutting this steel is a longer process for the threads, must be more careful and use cutting fluid, but it should work out well.
 
Amazing what one can accomplish if time and patience is available. Cutting the thread close to the shoulder is going to be the hard part, as it is difficult to engage the split nut lever at exactly the same place every time and the faster the RPM the harder it gets, but really slow RPM increases cutting tool pressure. You can cut a slot with a parting tool close to the shoulder and start from there as the thread is left-hand.
 
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I thought the slot on the barrel was there basically for threading, whether it be for the starting point or somewhere for the tool to run out into after the thread. Regardless, I copied what's on the barrel so I have been cutting that slot and starting my thread from there.


Looks like this when I start:
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And here's the original barrel, my 4130 trial, my aluminium trial piece and a cut off of the thread I screwed up.
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Once again, fits like an early 1900's glove.....
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And just for fun, got a few runs of the thread cutting on vid:

Have to take a break from this for a while I think, I have a Toyota that need attention. And work gets in the way too.
 
Looks Good! Here is a video you may find helpful on chamber cutting. I haven't done this myself, but this is the method my brother-in-law who is a bench-rest shooter uses. He also indicates on the BORE of the rifle on both ends when he sets up in the lathe. This may be overkill for what you are doing. If your lathe doesn't have the back-end steady screws, you can probably chuck in the 4 jaw and a steady on the lathe bed if the bed is long enough. Ignore the statement that the video is unavailable and click on the link. There are some other videos also if you google "Cutting Rifle Chamber"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGEvDtqXGDY‎
 
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Studying the idea of using a scrap barrel breech as a bushing. The smallest diameter of the original shank, measured in front of the thread is .899. This would suggest that the largest practical diameter for the shank of a barrel threaded into the sleeve would be 13/16; .8125. To keep the root diameter of the thread as large as possible, 13/16-20 might be a good choice. A firm fit of the new barrel into the sleeve would be a good idea. This diameter would limit the cartridges that could be chambered. I don't think I would worry about a .303 based cartridge.
If a replacement barrel in , say, .30-30 were to be used, 3/4-16 should be fine.
 
That is awesome! Thanks for sharing that!

Off the top of my head, the dimensions I got from my original barrel were pretty damn close to all those on the drawing. But even better to have the actual measurements on paper!
 
woodchopper said:
there is a sticky above with a whole lot of barrel shanks, most are hard to read from the scans.

I had this one from when I was trying to figure out what to do with my Ross.
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So what did you end up doing with yours, if you don't mind me askin?

Also, does anyone have any suggestions for places to order barrel blanks from in Canada? My understanding is that I can't simply order from the States and have it shipped up to me.
 
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