Re-barrel / Re-chamber a Ross 1905

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Elwood Epps and Charlie Parkinson. That brings back a lot of old memories. Charlie also introduced me to Groundhog hunting, and Elwood introduced me to Wildcat Cartridges. Charlie was a bit independent, and sometimes when he wanted to go hunting, he would put a sign on the door that said something like "Out for a while, be back later," and off he would go. And, sometimes you went by the shop and saw someone waiting there for him to come back, but that person was not knowledgeable with Charlie's sense of time ---- "back later" might be hours or even a day or so. Charlie also had a terrific stock of old parts and such. I bought a Winchester Low Wall that had been rebarreled to .22 R2 Lovell. This used the old STTEVENS 25-20 cartridge as a basic case. (NOT the same as the 25-20 Winchester, which was much shorter.) I happened to mention this to Charlie one day when I was in his shop, and he not only came up with 2 boxes (100 cases) of Griffin and Howe 25-20 Stevens cases, but also a set of Belding and Mull reloading tools for the Lovell.

One of the best signs Charlie made was "Attending Hardware demonstration at Long Point." We were shooting Ducks on the Marsh that day.

But, back to the 1905 Ross and what could possibly be done with it. First is to rebore, either to .338 or .35 Calibre. The .35 option would approximate the Ross sporting rifles made in that calibre, and the .338 might give a bit better ballistics. I think there is a chapter in "Big Bore Rifles" that had an old classic shot out .303 rifle rebored to .338 because the author wanted to keep the original markings on the barrel. It turned out quite well.

Several years ago, I bought a "well Bubbaed" 1905 Ross that had the barrel bent downward to a 90 degree angle. I also had on hand a barrel for a .243 calibre Remington 760 rifle that was not too bad. These barrels have a "block" that the barrel screws into, and then that block enters the front of the receiver and is tightened up with a screw. I took the "block" off the barrel, and threaded a "stub" from a 1905 barrel onto it. I necked down MILITARY .303 case using standard .243 dies, and then reamed the neck of the case to provide the proper diameter for the .243 bullets. Since it was already worked on, I made up a set of blocks for the action, and attached a solid Leupold base onto these blocks. Using SMELLIE's trick of putting elastic hair bands on the cartridge near the rim to hold the cartridge back against the face of the bolt, about 40 cartridges were fire formed using 10 grains of Unique and Cream of Wheat filler. The stock that came with it was repaired and used. (This was a "Winter" project, and the Winter is long and cold in Manitoba.)

It made an interesting and unique rifle to shoot. The rifle was about as accurate as an average sporting rifle, and performed well on Coyotes. By neck sizing the fireformed cartridges, reloading was no harder than reloading any other ordinary calibre. A friend of mine in Alberta fell in love with it, and being a person who can not bear to see a grown man cry, snivel, moan, spend a fortune on long telephone calls imploring me to part with it, and beg and demean himself, I gave it to him. He is still using it.

Certainly anyone who can duplicate that 1905 Ross barrel thread will find people beating a path to his door. I tend to pick up the Ross rifles at Gun Shows and such, if the price is reasonable and the rifle is not in too bad a condition. I had the pleasure of meeting CANTOM this spring at an Ontario Gun Show when he stopped me and asked about the 1905 I had just bought.

So, I would certainly encourage further development into being able to thread these 1905 barrels.
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I finished the threading without incident........to then mess up on the more embarrassing part of cutting the chamber too deep.

That thread sure is a finicky one. If the cutting bit isn't shaped just right there is material left over and the receiver won't thread on. I had to do a bit of filing on the final thread to get it to fit just right.

Not a big deal as of yet, as I had a little extra meat on the breech that I faced off and now I'm back to having the locking lugs not completely engage. All hope is not lost yet.
 
Well......all that work and I wrecked my 1905 action. Apparently it didn't like the .243 Winchester. Well it only wrecked a small part of the bolt, but I'd be hesitant to use any of this particular action for anything else now.

I'm more annoyed by the amount of screwing around I did than anything else.
 
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Not sure if everything can be attributed to headspace issues, but this was the resulting brass from the single shot I got to fire. The firing pin made a clear hole through the primer and the primer was flattened with the back of the casing head.

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60000 cup va 49000 cup for the .303 British....a trifle over the pressure it was designed for.

Too bad.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

And you point is? Excess head-space and over-pressure resulted in the catastrophic failure of the cartridge resulting in damage to the cocking piece and little else. Are you saying that a pierced primer and case separation on a .303 would had any less of a result?

Ross rifle are well regarded for being incredibly strong. SSapach made the grave mistake of cutting the chamber too deep and not fixing it before the rifle was fired. The rifle did it's job and contain the majority of the dangerous pressure. While the cocking piece provides no protection unlike that of a Mauser design, the rifle did not suffer a catastrophic failure and the operator was spared potentially greater harm.

Check the receiver and bolt so see if there is any deformation. Likely both are fine, but I would not try firing it until that is checked. How easily did the remnants of the cartridge extract?
 
The stories of the legendary strength of the Ross were mainly talking about the MkIII action IMHO. The 1905 action was designed around the Mk VI .303 cartridge, not sure what the cup was of that but certainly less than 60,000. I dont think I've ever heard anyone talking of the giant strength of the 1905 action.
Actually, I think this was the first time I've heard of anyone being able to duplicate that odd buttress barrel thread and actually make a different barrel for one!

At any rate, glad there was no injury to the shooter.
 
No injury, the pieces of the cocking mechanism came back and hit me but it wasn't very hard at all. I was actually bracing the rifle against my leg, rather than shoulder, when I fired it.

I knew I cut the chamber too deep and I tried to rectify it, but apparently just not enough. I cut some material off the breech of the barrel and cut a little more off the shoulder in front of the threads, but of course in my excitement for having the barrel chambered and fitted to the rifle, I wanted to fire it even though the "no-go" gauge would chamber in the rifle. Yup, pretty much my impatience and me not wanting to do a proper chamber.....not going to try to hide that one.

In my quick look over of the parts, the firing pin seems to be a little bent from this episode, but nothing else seemed deformed. But I'm no expert, so there could be other issues that I can't see with the naked eye.

Big problem with this 1905 barrel thread is that when you cut back the shoulder and breech to try to correct a deep chamber, you loose the notch for the set screw that holds the barrel in place. I can weld onto the set screw to extend it a little bit, but only so much before the notch in the barrel thread is out of reach. Then the set screw won't hold the barrel in place. These course threads don't exactly hold very well on their own either, a little shaking or bumping will loosen it up pretty quickly without that set screw.
 
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I have a 1910 sporter in 280. On the bottom at the front ring there is a screw which holds in a pin of some sort. Any idea what this is, the pin would not exactly fall out. The barrel on this gun is pooched and these pages have got me kind of interested in new barrel.
 
Yes, with the industrial magic of the Ross Rifle factory, those buttress thread barrels were timed. As I recall, they were designed as drop in units to be able to be changed fairly easily. Some people have backed the screw off and been able to remove the barrel (LH threads) by hand. Personally I didn't experience this but others have.

This is of course for the 1905 Short Rifle, with the smaller, thinner barrel.

The later 1905-E and Mk II** rifles went to the heavier thread as is found in the Mk III. They had to be torqued in using a barrel vice and armourer's wrench, RH thread too.

If the chamber was cut too deep on your new barrel, the barrel was pretty much ruined sadly... as you found when you tried to adjust the barrel thread to get it in deeper to reduce the headspace.

That screw that goes up from the bottom to lock the barrel in has to bear on that edge as you know.

If I was making a new barrel for one, I'd be tempted to try to use a Savage barrel with the collar...so easy to adjust headspace on those. Not sure if there was enough wall thickness there to make that possible.


No injury, the pieces of the cocking mechanism came back and hit me but it wasn't very hard at all. I was actually bracing the rifle against my leg, rather than shoulder, when I fired it.

I knew I cut the chamber too deep and I tried to rectify it, but apparently just not enough. I cut some material off the breech of the barrel and cut a little more off the shoulder in front of the threads, but of course in my excitement for having the barrel chambered and fitted to the rifle, I wanted to fire it even though the "no-go" gauge would chamber in the rifle. Yup, pretty much my impatience and me not wanting to do a proper chamber.....not going to try to hide that one.

In my quick look over of the parts, the firing pin seems to be a little bent from this episode, but nothing else seemed deformed. But I'm no expert, so there could be other issues that I can't see with the naked eye.

Big problem with this 1905 barrel thread is that when you cut back the shoulder and breech to try to correct a deep chamber, you loose the notch for the set screw that holds the barrel in place. I can weld onto the set screw to extend it a little bit, but only so much before the notch in the barrel thread is out of reach. Then the set screw won't hold the barrel in place. These course threads don't exactly hold very well on their own either, a little shaking or bumping will loosen it up pretty quickly without that set screw.
 
Ross thread....testing my patience. My old clunker lathe isn't enjoying it much either.

It's been a while since I've tried anything. A while back, before Christmas, I tried threading a heavier 303 barrel. Messed up once, no big deal though as the heavy barrel allows me to cut off and try again.

Tried again this afternoon finally......and screwed it up again. Had the thread cutting damn near finished when I grabbed the wrong position with the half nut. Everything moves so fast, there wasn't time to stop it before it totally ruined the thread.

I also noticed that one of the guides (not sure the technical name for it) on my steady rest is broken. I suppose I could braze it back together, as it is small and cast iron. I wonder what the chances of my finding a steady rest with rollers would be, for such an old machine?

I'm discouraged at the moment, so I'm going to leave it for a while and perhaps check into fixing up this steady rest before I try another thread cut. It's a tricky one....
 
The stories of the legendary strength of the Ross were mainly talking about the MkIII action IMHO. The 1905 action was designed around the Mk VI .303 cartridge, not sure what the cup was of that but certainly less than 60,000. I dont think I've ever heard anyone talking of the giant strength of the 1905 action.
Actually, I think this was the first time I've heard of anyone being able to duplicate that odd buttress barrel thread and actually make a different barrel for one!

At any rate, glad there was no injury to the shooter.

Ross Rifle Co. proof on some 1905 actions was 27 tons. At 2240 lbs per Long Ton, that would be 60,480 lbs.

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Looks like excessive firing pin protrusion caused a punctured primer. The cocking piece looks like a brittle fracture and from the file marks the crosspin hole might have been already deformed and someone filed the sides of the cocking piece to "correct" that. Another long crack about midway through possibly.
 
As it happens, I'm sitting on a #4 Shilen .308 barrel that is 32". Would finish long enough for a II** or III project. .30-.303? There is no way that I would attempt cutting Mk. II threads; don't think my lathe could generate the pitch. A II** or III has square threads, so would not be unreasonable. I have a III action, and a sported II** with a horrible bore...
But I really don't need yet another project...
 
oh I hear you on the having too many projects.

I was thinking of just using the barrel stub and sleeveing in a new tube. I wonder if 32-20 would work. I think I would have bolt/extractor problems
 
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