Real Italian T2 Garands

[Smitsauce]

I wonder what happened to the original Italian flash hiders on the m1d's?
I have a couple and they are very nicely made, each one has the maker's marks stamped on the opposite side of the other one. Wonder how that happened
It is also interesting to see that the American's have the Italian factory Breda receivers and Canada has the
SA converted receivers.
So, then do the Canadian one's also have the SA converted op rod's?
Beretta made 7.62 op rods etc for their guns
Do these guns have the steel 7.62 calibre blocks made by Beretta or FIAT?
BM 59 's had cut down SA barrels and SA op rods.

The one I picked up has a Winchester trigger group and hammer, trigger guard is machined, and unmarked. I can't see anything else that is marked in there, but it is packed with cosmoline.

The OP rod is an earlier Winchester slant cut modified and marked 7.62mm.

The Bolt is Breda BMR marked

The Spacer block, is marked with a C on the side. Didn't want to take it apart as the whole thing is full of cosmoline and I didn't want to disturb it.

The Muzzle erosion specs as a hair under brand new. Can't check throat errosion as my gauge is for 30-06, but it will be minimal as well I imagine.

Springfield barrel from June 1952 converted to 7.62/2 in 1966. Stock is from 1966 as well and has the 66 over FAT markings and looks to be all the same vintage and colour for all three stock pieces.

Springfield receiver from May 1944

It's really an amazing rifle!

 

[can14]

Back in 1986 Sarco Inc had brand new SA 653 5448 3 63 Y17 PM barrels that the Italian military milled
1/2 inch off to convert them to 7.62 they also had mint SA Op rods converted to 7.62 and stamped 7.62
Beretta used brand new SIAU 1967 7.62 barrels and converted SA Op rods or new Italian made one's
All the wood was brand new or mint
So one can assume that they converted new SA June 1952 m1d barrels and SA Op Rods

 

[enefgee]

I wonder what happened to the original Italian flash hiders on the m1d's?
I have a couple and they are very nicely made, each one has the maker's marks stamped on the opposite side of the other one. Wonder how that happened
It is also interesting to see that the American's have the Italian factory Breda receivers and Canada has the
SA converted receivers.
So, then do the Canadian one's also have the SA converted op rod's?
Beretta made 7.62 op rods etc for their guns
Do these guns have the steel 7.62 calibre blocks made by Beretta or FIAT?
BM 59 's had cut down SA barrels and SA op rods.

It's probable that US made receivers were not importable to the US, due to restrictions on returning military aid.

 

[big bear]

Thank you for the information,

The one I picked up has a Winchester trigger group and hammer, trigger guard is machined, and unmarked. I can't see anything else that is marked in there, but it is packed with cosmoline.

The OP rod is an earlier Winchester slant cut modified and marked 7.62mm.

The Bolt is Breda BMR marked

The Spacer block, is marked with a C on the side. Didn't want to take it apart as the whole thing is full of cosmoline and I didn't want to disturb it.

The Muzzle erosion specs as a hair under brand new. Can't check throat errosion as my gauge is for 30-06, but it will be minimal as well I imagine.

Springfield barrel from June 1952 converted to 7.62/2 in 1966. Stock is from 1966 as well and has the 66 over FAT markings and looks to be all the same vintage and colour for all three stock pieces.

Springfield receiver from May 1944

It's really an amazing rifle!

Do you feel it is best to leave full cosmoline for a reason(s)? Some collectors seem to feel important to clean thoroughly to find and deal with any rust.

Thanks for the details you provided!

 

[big bear]

Hmmmmm?

It's probable that US made receivers were not importable to the US, due to restrictions on returning military aid.

I guess that explains why the TIPO2 rifles imported into U.S. had BREDA receivers and the one's here ( as far as I have heard) have Springfield receivers?

 

[can14]

CMP doesn't want any competition on the US made m1 garand business.
There weren't that many guns put up for sale in the first place.
America is the first place everyone wants to sell garands to, then Europe and then Canada
The original 7.62 rifles were made with US receivers, then Breda / Beretta started making them and converting them. Then came the BM59 conversions and new made guns

 

[FlightRN]

Italian M1 sniper PARAFIAMMA M2 flash hiders

I wonder what happened to the original Italian flash hiders on the m1d's?
I have a couple and they are very nicely made, each one has the maker's marks stamped on the opposite side of the other one. Wonder how that happened
It is also interesting to see that the American's have the Italian factory Breda receivers and Canada has the
SA converted receivers.
So, then do the Canadian one's also have the SA converted op rod's?
Beretta made 7.62 op rods etc for their guns
Do these guns have the steel 7.62 calibre blocks made by Beretta or FIAT?
BM 59 's had cut down SA barrels and SA op rods.

Good Day,
It appears the flash hiders used by the Italians were reminiscent of the Springfield Armory and later HART heavy base versions. The book, il Garand in Italia 1951-1996 by Ruggero Filippo Pettinelli, shows versions where the markings (PARAFIAMMA M2) were seen roll stamped either on the top or bottom. I don't know if the US supplied Flash Hiders under the Mutual Defense Assistance Act, but if they didn't, that could explain why the Italian Military made their own and as did NATO.

It seems unlikely the Italians would segregate the operating rods by manufacture for different weapons systems (M1 vs. BM59). To much effort when all the manufactures were interchangeable. The sample size received by importers in the US & Canada (and later reported by collectors) is too small to make broad general statements. I've seen PB, BMB, and SA op rods converted for TIPO2 & BM59/62 use. Considering Winchester, H&R, and International Harvester receivers were likewise converted/modified, its probable operating rods made by those manufactures were likewise modified.

CMP doesn't want any competition on the US made m1 garand business.
There weren't that many guns put up for sale in the first place.
America is the first place everyone wants to sell garands to, then Europe and then Canada
The original 7.62 rifles were made with US receivers, then Breda / Beretta started making them and converting them. Then came the BM59 conversions and new made guns

The US Importations section of Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) is the organization that allows for importation of firearms. The CMP is the recipient of weapons returned to the US Army/Military/DoD by Foreign Governments the firearms were provided via Mutual Defense Assistance Act or Military Assistance Program. If the rifles were "purchased", they are not explicitly required to be returned to US custody and could be sold to importers.

Regards,
Michael

 

[Smitsauce]

Do you feel it is best to leave full cosmoline for a reason(s)? Some collectors seem to feel important to clean thoroughly to find and deal with any rust.

Thanks for the details you provided!

I'm always torn with leaving it in the cosmoline for collector's purposes and long term protection, and cleaning it all out and giving it a good oiling and putting it away again, or to shoot it a little. I have previously found rust under what seemed to be a great gobs of cosmoline on some rifles, so with that in mind, I will probably take it all apart and give it a good once over, shoot it a little, then preserve it for long term storage again. I just haven't had the time since I got it to clean it out, so I wanted to keep it as is until then. When I finally do, I can take some pictures and post up a complete parts list with drawing numbers, and manufacturer's etc...

Interested to see what the recoil is like with 7.62 compared to the .30-06 in pretty much the same rifle!

 

[Harry514]

So thats how much they cost ..... yikes :S

 

[can14]

Clean it, I have found more than one gun in my time with rust and pitting under consoline.
You can spray the beeswax type coating on it later.

 

[cantom]

I confess I wasn't thinking of anything like this...but this thread got me interested and then I started reading.

They sold out in the US in like 20 minutes...and they only got the non US receivers.


Got a real beauty from Weimajack...so impressed. I believe it's unfired. WRA barrel, Springfield receiver, Springfield bolt, WRA trigger group. Look at the gas plug and cylinder...not the slightest carbon. Looks like it was built up in 1972.

Gorgeous walnut stock set.

These were way later than the BM59's. The Italians did great work on them.

 

[cantom]

I'm thankful to the Italians for actually releasing their surplus. Also have a Long Branch that came from the Italian Navy.

 

[big bear]

Beauty!

I confess I wasn't thinking of anything like this...but this thread got me interested and then I started reading.

They sold out in the US in like 20 minutes...and they only got the non US receivers.


Got a real beauty from Weimajack...so impressed. I believe it's unfired. WRA barrel, Springfield receiver, Springfield bolt, WRA trigger group. Look at the gas plug and cylinder...not the slightest carbon. Looks like it was built up in 1972.

Gorgeous walnut stock set.

These were way later than the BM59's. The Italians did great work on them.

Weimajack !! , only the best in my experience. beauty of a rifle.Enjoy!

 

[revilo]

What sling would be considered correct for these guns? Did the Italians use US style?

 

[can14]

BM59 sling

 

[cantom]

A CGN member just sent me this.

Hi,

Just in case you were not aware, the CCS marking at the heel of your T2 Garand is for "Compagnia Commando E Servizi."

It is the Italian special forces slogan. Your rifle was used by the CCS. Epic find!

http://www.smalp155.org/curiosita/storia/compagnia-comando-servizi.php

 

[L42A1]

I confess I wasn't thinking of anything like this...but this thread got me interested and then I started reading.

They sold out in the US in like 20 minutes...and they only got the non US receivers.


Got a real beauty from Weimajack...so impressed. I believe it's unfired. WRA barrel, Springfield receiver, Springfield bolt, WRA trigger group. Look at the gas plug and cylinder...not the slightest carbon. Looks like it was built up in 1972.

Gorgeous walnut stock set.

These were way later than the BM59's. The Italians did great work on them.

Enjoy it Tom!

 

[MiG25]

Guys are paying $2500+ for an Italian rebuild???

Italian rebuild.

Rebuilt in Italy.

Two thousand five hundred dollars.

 

[cantom]

Yeah but...have you seen milsurp prices lately?

 

[SteelFlint]

Guys are paying $2500+ for an Italian rebuild???

Italian rebuild.

Rebuilt in Italy.

Two thousand five hundred dollars.

I see ads on EE for upwards of $3K now for regular, non Tipo 2, run of the mill Garands these days.

Yup I thought about it a lot too, but picked up one myself since I can't recall the last time real deal Italian Garands were available. .308s built by armourers yes, but not actually out of surplussed inventory. They are a neat node in Garand lore. Paid slightly less than 2.5. Mine is the same, lots of grease but not alot of apparent wear - thinking they were built, test fired, and then stored for the last 50 years. Mine shoots beautifully, maybe 4 clicks on the elevation before getting centered on paper. Italians took care of their Tipo 2s for sure.