Reccomend a powder?

notsorichguy

notsorichguy

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Hey all,

I'm looking to achieve 3250fps+ out of a 30-06 150gr. bullet and 3000fps+ out of a 175gr. bullet. I am using IMR 4350, and I get resonable results (just over 3000) but, I WANT MORE;) lol! I get 3500ish with 110gr, and I would like to get better performance out of my loads as I increase bullet weight.

In a perfect world I would get 3500fps out of everything I load, I realize that isn't gonna happen. I am willing to change powder, shot heck I'll try anything...... Well not anything I don't want to get a 300 or 7mm Mag......

This would be for hunting loads, I currently stick with the Nosler and hornady lines of bullets, but I am not married to them.

I am shooting a tika T-3, does anybody know what the "max" pressure is or the pressure should I should stay away from.... up till now I have just loaded a sampling (usually in half grain incrementsfrom min loads to 2 gr. over max loads) and back off half a grain when I start to mushroom the primer pocket, as this would make the shell un-reloadable. There has got to be a more "scientific" way. This is the way I was taught how to reload for max performance, it does work but what the heck, I figgured it wouldn't hurt to ask:)

tks
 
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You are going to get flamed here pretty good for loading a 30-06 that hot. Max Loads are listed that way for a reason.


3000 fps with a 175 gr bullet from a 30-06 is way too hot, 2800 is warm, 3000 is too HOT. How many grains of that powder are you loading?
 
Thats just it I CAN'T get to 3000fps in a 175gr.

I've tried IMR4350, and 4320, I am thinking about switching to IMR4895, I would probably be happy with around 2900 but if I can get more, why not.... if its safe I mean, I don't wanna blow the darn thing up... I've only had it for 6 months...

Here's my reasoning, I bought the rifle, shot it a bunch (I told my wife I was stockpiling brass). I looked into some commercially available ammo, found the Hornady Lite-Mag in 165 gr. shooting @3150fps..ish(That ammo KILLS Deer I tell you what!). That stuff is like hens teeth, I am willing to buy it, at $30-$35 a box but at $55.00, no thanks I'll load it myself.... turns out I can't, S**T!!;)

So iI then call my in-laws, they are "south" for the rest of winter and ask them to look around down there for some and NO DICE! everywhere they go it's sold out... and now looking at the web site, the stuff they are making now I can just about load myself. so here I sit typing! lol

If its not possible, it's not possible... I still don't have to like it, do I? lol ;)

Is there another option out there that will give me higher velocity with out the crazy pressure? I guess thats the nuts and bolts of my questions.

What are you guys loading, any body else getting any better than I am, or is this as good as it gets

tks
 
If you are chronographing that Hornady light Magnum 165 grain ammo at 3150, I suggest you check out your chronograph against a known good one. I have chrony'd that stuff in barrels right up to 26", and never even came close to 3000, let alone 3100. The practical limits for a 24" barrelled 30-06 [within sane pressure limits] is about 3050 with a 150 grain bullet, 2950 with a 165, and 2850 with a 180. If you keep pushing the limits like you are trying to do, you are courting disaster!! If you want higher velocities, then buy a magnum and put up with the additional recoil, noise, costs, etc. Another caution, don't mess with those faster burning powders if you want the best velocities. Their pressures peak much quicker, and can bring you grief. Regards, Eagleye.
 
Johnny G1 said:
Can you read, as there are loading books out there, Just my thoughts before you screw up a good gun. Its a 30-06 not 22-250 but if you insist on foolish loads go for it.
Click to expand...

Being able to read wouldn't help much. My Nosler and Speer manuals fall far short of the OP's goals :eek:

BTW I believe the light mags are loaded with proprietary powder, not anything you can just buy.
 
Slow powder long barrel, but you are trying to push the caliber beyond its capacity. Buy a 300 RUM 3400 with a 190gr. bullet. 3006 will not perform what you are asking of it.

A.
 
Speed does not equal accuracy. How fast your bullet is going when you miss the target means nothing. At 3250+ fps you are pushing the limits on what some bullets will withstand before breaking up on their way to the target. Your approach to reloading and chasing higher velocities is at a dangerous level. Go back and read your reloading manuals for your own safety.
As far as I am concerned velocities and bullet drop charts printed on ammo boxes is nothing more than marketing BS.
 
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back off half a grain when I start to mushroom the primer pocket, as this would make the shell un-reloadable. There has got to be a more "scientific" way. This is the way I was taught how to reload for max performance,

All I can say is WOW :eek:
I suggest you stop reloading NOW till you at least understand what your doing. Loading continuelessly heavier loads till the primer pocket mushrooms :runaway:

If some-one actually taught you that I have to ask how they died??

I actually loaded for a Tikka SS 30-06 with 4350 & found 2800fps on the edge!
 
maynard said:
Speed does not equal accuracy. How fast your bullet is going when you miss the target means nothing. At 3250+ fps you are pushing the limits on what some bullets will withstand before breaking up on their way to the target. Your approach to reloading and chasing higher velocities is at a dangerous level. Go back and read your reloading manuals for you own safety.
As far as I am concerned velocities and bullet drop charts printed on ammo boxes is nothing more than marketing BS.
Click to expand...

X2.

You want the most consistent and accurate load. Not the fastest.
 
A friend had a Rem700 action with a 26" Hart barrel and he was getting close to 3000fps with 165gr nosler BT
with way to much H4350 for my liking and he was using a expensive Ohler Chrony with 3 screems. I looked at brass and let me tell you those primer where flat as a table. I would think in hot weather he might have locked up his bolt ? but he was getting very tight groups.
for me the Rl 17 powder might get you more velocity than powders you are using.
but your sure are flutting with extreem dangers, and you won't achive your goals

http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html
 
Like a lot of other guys have already said, trying to obtain that kind of velocity from a 30-06 hunting rifle is stupid and dangerous. You should probably consider taking up a new hobby before you accidently kill yourself.
 
Let's put it this way - Quick Load calculates that by the time you even think about touching 3000FPS with a 175 grain bullet, you will be pushing pressures up around 75,000PSI on average (which means spikes could possibly reach 80,000PSI or more). To give you an idea how over the top that is, a 30-06 is only rated for 58,000PSI.

Further food for thought - the Tikka T3 (a gun I dearly love, mind you, my primary hunting firearms are all Tikkas) I am told, is not the best design in the world for handling a full on 'gun blow-up' over-pressure condition. In other words, if you're using a T3 and load it till it blows up, you stand a pretty good chance of hurting yourself.

Do yourself a favor - if you want some super-high velocity, and you like T3's, go pick up a T3 chambered in a cartridge designed to generate some really high velocity (270WSM is a sweet choice - I have a T3 in 270WSM, and yes, indeed, it will make a bullet go stupidly FAST!).
 
faster

notsorichguy said:
Thats just it I CAN'T get to 3000fps in a 175gr.

I've tried IMR4350, and 4320, I am thinking about switching to IMR4895, I would probably be happy with around 2900 but if I can get more, why not.... if its safe I mean, I don't wanna blow the darn thing up... I've only had it for 6 months...

Here's my reasoning, I bought the rifle, shot it a bunch (I told my wife I was stockpiling brass). I looked into some commercially available ammo, found the Hornady Lite-Mag in 165 gr. shooting @3150fps..ish(That ammo KILLS Deer I tell you what!). That stuff is like hens teeth, I am willing to buy it, at $30-$35 a box but at $55.00, no thanks I'll load it myself.... turns out I can't, S**T!!;)

So iI then call my in-laws, they are "south" for the rest of winter and ask them to look around down there for some and NO DICE! everywhere they go it's sold out... and now looking at the web site, the stuff they are making now I can just about load myself. so here I sit typing! lol

If its not possible, it's not possible... I still don't have to like it, do I? lol ;)

Is there another option out there that will give me higher velocity with out the crazy pressure? I guess thats the nuts and bolts of my questions.

What are you guys loading, any body else getting any better than I am, or is this as good as it gets

tks
Click to expand...

Data in the barnes manual fot a 130gr bullet will give you the velocities you are looking for, just have to switch to a better bullet, the TSX 130 gr. fs
 
As usual, Eagleye is giving you excellent advice. My final, "go to book," for such matters is, "Game loads and practical ballistcs for the American hunter," by Bob Hagel.
He gets everything there is with the loads he tests and shows. With a 30-06 Sako, 24 inch barrel, 70 degrees temerature, he shows four top loads for the 165 grain bullet, each with a different powder. His top load with 4350 is 2883. Only one of the four powders gets over 2950, and that is 2990, with a healthy charge of Norma 205. This powder, N205, was very similar in burning rate to the old H4831, only much denser, allowing for more powder in the case.
 
Go buy a 30 cal magnum, and quite this foolishness. you cant get those velocities safely in a 30'06, no matter what you think.

Have you ever heard of CUMULATIVE METAL FATIGUE?

Barring hearing about the above have you ever heard of the Darwin Award?
 
Ok, Don't freak out geez!

IMR 4350 @ 57.5 gr I get 2900(ish)fps with 150 gr Hornady SST Interlock bullets

IMR 4350 @ 56.7gr I get 27(ish)fps with 175 gr Hornady "lead tipped" (I no longer have the box) bullets

IMR 4320 @ 52.5 gr I get 3000(ish)fps with the same 150's

IMR 4320 @ 49 gr I get 2700(ish)fps with the same 175's

From ALL I HAVE read this is still under MAX loads, So Frickin Chill out.......

If these #'s are out to lunch I may have to get a new crony but COME ON I NEVER load beyond max loads, maybe once and a while "just to see" but so far the "mushrooming" I've been seeing is still under "MAX". I got that max "From a book".

I want to know if I can do better, safely and affordably.

That will learn me to ask a question on this form!!
 
Your second posting is sure a lot different than your first one! You certainly never swelled the primer pockets with your load quoted in the second posting, 57.5 of 4350 with 150 grain bullet. The Bob Hagel book I quoted shows more 4350 than that, with 180 grain bullets. I also carefully built up to his loading with my rifle, and there is no sign, whatsoever, of overloading.
So, what in the world did you use to "mushroom" the primer pockets, beyond use? Enlarged primer pockets are a sure sign of a heavy, likely dangerous, over load.
 
I don't know H4831, I starting to wonder if I have a bad bunch of brass... I don't actually go till it mushrooms, once I start to see alot of scaring from the bolt is usually where I stop and back off, "mushrooming" is the term my "teacher" (my Dad.. who is still alive btw) used, so I use the term as well.

I just want to know if there is a powder out there I can use that will produce better results.

I have found some info on the net that shows pressures at that 58,000 to 58,100 range for 30-06 and that is at max loads. So I assume that would be the "max" for my 30-06, but I am still wondering if that is the actuall max or if there is a max besides what I can find in reloading manuals. I have a couple of old manuals around,and they show max loads in the 56,000 to 57,000 range. I get most of my info from the net now, the Hodgdon site for example.

So far my own research shows that with IMR 4895 I can reach 3005 fps with a 150 gr. bullet @ 56,000psi (Hodgdons' web site) And I can get 2741fps with a 175gr bullet @ 58,100psi (again Hodgdons') and in answer to my question from this post, I've got RL17 Powder and Tsx 130gr. bullets....

Does anybody have any other ideas?
 
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