Recommend me a 165 grain. REVIVAL!

[trapoholic]

Just a couple questions.
Why will you not use a monolithic ? And have you ever used them for hunting?

If you hunt lots and enjoy fantastic accuracy with excellent results. I would highly recommend the barnes tsx or ttsx. a 150 grain in your 308 will never let u down . They mushroom nicely into a claw type pattern . the 150 will have the same bc or very close to a 165 lead core . being therefor a bit flatter. its lighter so you get slightly less recoil. I am a hunter way more than i am a target shooter . I use this 150 tssx in my 3006 . they are deadly accurate . and if you get a bit of a bad shot your not grinding up lead into your hamburger witch is a huge bonus as well . You have to always ask yourself ? your bullet lost 39.9 grains of material. half of that at least will be lead fragments. Where did it end up? if you have kids that your feeding you especially dont want them ingesting lead.
All my own opinion , based on at least a couple hundred kills with Barnes bullets. If you have never tried them you should. I promise you you wont be disappointed. Unless of course you shoot an animal in the guts. then you may not get the exit hole you are looking for like you would say out of a ballistic tip ?

I also forgot to ad that over the years i have recovered a number of these bullets fom 80 gr 6mm to 180 gr 30 cal . when put back on the scale at home rarely have they shed 5% of there original wt. Here a story alot of you wont like but we all know what happens when your faced with a split second decision . A few year ago when moose hunting in northern BC i came around a corner and there about 150 yards was a huge bull moose . He ran strait away from us at a full gallop down the road . I took my 300wm and shot him dead center in the tail pipe with a 180 gr ttsx as i did not want him jumping the ditch and disapearing into the brush . It knocked him flat on his ass. i did have to finish him off with one behind the ear when we got up to him . Without any exageration and to my surprise we never wasted more than five pounds a meat from that animal . There was no bloodshot ribs . And i never recoverd that bullet or did i find an exit wound. Always wondered what the result would have been with a lead core bullet. not looking to dish anyone for using them . Just thought i would share that .

I've never personally hunted with them from my rifle but 2 guys in my gang used them for a year. 1 guy 168 grain ttsx in his 30-06 and the other 150 grain in his 308. 30-06 man shot 2 deer that year broadside. 100 yards and a bit of tracking I found them both times with blood drops the size of my pinky nail every 40 feet or so.

Same situation with 308 man and his 150's. Internal damage wasn't impressive at all.

Lead fragments in my meat don't concern me whatsoever considering everything I do almost daily that could kill me.

What would a lead core bullet have done on that moose? From personal experience with a shot like that with a 180 grain it would have made about a 7x7" square of meat and bone dust and you would have had to put one behind his ear anyway.

165 NP’s would be my choice in a 308 even at carbine length. I use 140 NP’s in my 6.5x55 over RL22. For heavy bush hunting, heavier bullets will keep a higher energy and push through the thick stuff better than the lighter bullets.

Trust me my friend I'm well aware a heavier bullet will drive home better through brush despite what "experts say" round nose do it even better and straighter. But even a full length barrel I'd be lucky to get factory 180 grain velocity, out of her carbine pump, that I won't drive to max load, I'm not gonna get much speed at all. Might better trade it in for a 30/30 if I wanna go those speeds with those weights, know what I mean?

 

[woodlotowner]

Anyone who has tracked 3 different deer with same amount of non existent blood, the same 100 plus yards with what should have been max 40 yards to dead deer with broadside hits with wonder mono bullets would also say the same thing.

Also, anybody who feels the need to go through 10 pages just to post such a useless, non constructive opinion as you just did is also, in fact, a waste of bandwidth.

Now carry on little doggy. Spam somebody else with your liberal comments.

Wait...what's that? I can hear the deer in your vicinity vociferously and gleefully rejoicing in your lack of appreciation of a good monolithic bullet. "We should live for yet another season, Bambi." LOL

 

[Leatherstocking]

Hey Trapoholic, lov your milk jug test. Did similar test years ago minus the wood. With similar results. 50 yds.
150 grn TSX from 7mmRM
And 243 TSX
They all looked like the photos in the Barnes ads.
Been shooting them for hunting exclusively every since.

 

[woodlotowner]

The results speak for themselves. If you don't know where you hit the animal, or where it fell down, you should not, perhaps, be in the woods? Oh, that's Barnes TSX vs Nosler AccuBond in .270 at about 30 yards.

 

[trapoholic]

The results speak for themselves. If you don't know where you hit the animal, or where it fell down, you should not, perhaps, be in the woods? Oh, that's Barnes TSX vs Nosler AccuBond in .270 at about 30 yards.

View attachment 448832

Cowabunga! Good for you! I'm glad you're the snipiest sniper to ever hit the woods.

My 3 samples of the barnes in 2 days were absolute dump and I'll never use or recommend them to anybody because of it. If somebody brought a buddy to hunt for a day in my gang I'd send them home.

If people use and like em, good for them. I don't.

Let's leave it at that.

 

[trapoholic]

Hey Trapoholic, lov your milk jug test. Did similar test years ago minus the wood. With similar results. 50 yds.
150 grn TSX from 7mmRM
And 243 TSX
They all looked like the photos in the Barnes ads.
Been shooting them for hunting exclusively every since.

Like I've said a few times, 3 bad experiences with them in 2 days I won't use them. Shots that should have bled like broken main line and left the chest cavity like soup looked like they were shot with a pencil.

 

[Seven Lakes]

Trust me my friend I'm well aware a heavier bullet will drive home better through brush despite what "experts say" round nose do it even better and straighter. But even a full length barrel I'd be lucky to get factory 180 grain velocity, out of her carbine pump, that I won't drive to max load, I'm not gonna get much speed at all. Might better trade it in for a 30/30 if I wanna go those speeds with those weights, know what I mean?

Ive been shooting 168 match bullets out of my 20” rem 700 barrel with 2600ish FPS and good accuracy. H4895 for the short barrel.

For Ontario hunting I think that’s enough velocity for our distances.

 

[trapoholic]

Ive been shooting 168 match bullets out of my 20” rem 700 barrel with 2600ish FPS and good accuracy. H4895 for the short barrel.

For Ontario hunting I think that’s enough velocity for our distances.

I have no idea how fast the 165 interlock is going. Somewheres around 2600fps maybe a touch over. It's accurate and had wicked penetration in a harsh medium plus half inch of pine knot

 

[woodlotowner]

Truce. I like any good bullet that works well.

 

[trapoholic]

Truce. I like any good bullet that works well.

And just lika dat friends were made because of a argument put up some pictures of your critters with your barnes. I know allot of people swear by em and I've seen other pictures of gnarly kills with em... for some reason I just didn't have the same experience with the deer I had to track for people. On the other hand I got a friend who swears by them and he's killed 3 deer and a bear with them from his 308 and one deer from his 30/30 with the factory vortx.

Not gonna lie I've thought about loading the 30/30 barnes bullet in a 308 to see what happens to a deer. But I've also thought about loading the 150 grain round nose partition in a 308 too... but the cannaleur would look funny stuck out past the case mouth and I'm real weird on aesthetics like that.

 

[Eagleye]

If those Hornady Interlocks are working well for you, please use them!
At 308 Velocity, they are probably just fine.
I do know that they are too fragile for 308 Norma Mag velocity [3200+ fps]
Dave.

 

[track]

Take some advice from an old guy, "stay away from monolithic bullets!" Yes, I tried them.....once; and NEVER again. Best all-around bullet for North American big game is the Nosler Partition and Accubond, also had great success with the Ballistic tips, never failed me..

 

[woodlotowner]

I'll remember to put my sarcastic smiley face in next time. As for pictures of the wound channel, I never think to record any. I shall from here on. I can say, as I suspect you may realize, these bullets both were found just under the hide on the far side. Both were bang flops and I cannot brag about having exceptionally good aim, since both were taken at or under 30 yards. In fact, I have neve shot a deer here beyond that range. They either walk right past me on a watch or I bump into them while tracking in some fresh snow. The bullets in my previous post were both 130 grains and from the same 270 WSM rifle. They were moving close to 3,100 fps and both dumped all their energy into the animal. This, to me, is indeed perfection in performance. I am partial to the monolithic bullets for their textbook performance and literally 100% weight retention with no lead in the meat. Your post intrigued me, as I never consider, or seek, a bullet passing through the deer. The one pass through I had with the 130 grain TSX, left a blood trail in the snow that glowed like a neon sign, but, alas, it was very short. I have, perhaps, been simply very lucky with my hunting experiences and never had to rely on a blood trail. The only problems I have heard (more actually surmised) with the monometal bullets, have been from guys not sending them fast enough for the range of the shots. Your points are indeed valid. Carry on.

 

[trapoholic]

If those Hornady Interlocks are working well for you, please use them!
At 308 Velocity, they are probably just fine.
I do know that they are too fragile for 308 Norma Mag velocity [3200+ fps]
Dave.

I've got em over 40.5 grains of AR-COMP in a carbine, wish I had a chronograph but according to manuals I've got they're probably only in the 2500fps range which kinda sticks but the penetration was ridiculous. I ended up keeping the partitions and loaded some up to test the penetration on those as well. Might drop to a 150 grain position to get a little more horsepower outta em.

My uncle wants me to load up some 180 grain interlocks for his 30-06 7400 but all I've got is H4350 and RL-16 what's your thought on those powders in the semi?

I'll remember to put my sarcastic smiley face in next time. As for pictures of the wound channel, I never think to record any. I shall from here on. I can say, as I suspect you may realize, these bullets both were found just under the hide on the far side. Both were bang flops and I cannot brag about having exceptionally good aim, since both were taken at or under 30 yards. In fact, I have neve shot a deer here beyond that range. They either walk right past me on a watch or I bump into them while tracking in some fresh snow. The bullets in my previous post were both 130 grains and from the same 270 WSM rifle. They were moving close to 3,100 fps and both dumped all their energy into the animal. This, to me, is indeed perfection in performance. I am partial to the monolithic bullets for their textbook performance and literally 100% weight retention with no lead in the meat. Your post intrigued me, as I never consider, or seek, a bullet passing through the deer. The one pass through I had with the 130 grain TSX, left a blood trail in the snow that glowed like a neon sign, but, alas, it was very short. I have, perhaps, been simply very lucky with my hunting experiences and never had to rely on a blood trail. The only problems I have heard (more actually surmised) with the monometal bullets, have been from guys not sending them fast enough for the range of the shots. Your points are indeed valid. Carry on.

I've heard you really gotta drive the monos to make em work. I know the 30-06 driver had em flying at a good clip, up there in the high 2900's somewhere. Most of my shots on deer are pretty close while dogging or tracking too

 

[trapoholic]

Gonna bring this back to life real quick. Ended up shooting a bear with her 308 this spring loaded with the interlocks. A bit of brush, 2" Hemlock and a bear width later that bullet is in the mud somewhere in the swamp

 

[Rick]

Take some advice from an old guy, "stay away from monolithic bullets!" Yes, I tried them.....once; and NEVER again. Best all-around bullet for North American big game is the Nosler Partition and Accubond, also had great success with the Ballistic tips, never failed me..

Here's another old guy's observations you can take as advice or not: the Barnes bullets have worked just fine here in the Rocky Mountain Trench since they were first released on every moose, elk, mule deer, whitetail, bear, etc that we've shot with them, from 30/06's to 338 Winnies to 358 Norma Magnums and one .416 Rigby (my brother's explanation: "just because I can"). Just as good as and better than the Nosler Partitions they replaced. That's a few more animals than "just tried them once".

Now, if you want a crap bullet for large size game (based on only a couple of peoples' experiences on a handful of deer), then use Ballistic Tips. I have a very nice letter here from Chub Eastman at Nosler, a few years after the release of the Ballistic Tip line, when I wrote Nosler about how the bullets appeared to expand too rapidly and lose too much weight on our local whitetails and mulies when fired out of a 30/06. They did kill well, but I was concerned about using them on elk and moose because of that. The letter from Eastman at Nosler essentially said the bullets were intended to perform like that because the vast majority of reloaders were going to be shooting smaller size game with them, so they were not optimal for elk and moose, although they should work fine. And if I was concerned, there was the ubiquitous Partition still in the lineup.

I should go see if I can find that letter and scan it. Given that the Ballistic Tips are still in the Nosler lineup decades later, obviously most who reload them think they work just fine. Of course, reloaders haven't rejected Barnes bullets due to poor performance - their bullet lines seem to be growing just fine. Some hunters may have decided they also work just fine.


Having said that, nobody reloading their hunting ammunition should load a bullet they do not have confidence in. No matter what manufacturer's name is on it. Why would you use a rifle, a scope, or a bullet that you have no confidence in, no matter what the reason?

That's exactly why I/we dumped the Nosler Ballistic Tips, despite how easy it was to develop loads that grouped so well throughout the range of charge weights. And why earlier than all of that, I dumped Hornady Interlocks after only one bad experience where three in the chest of an elk about 100 yards away just looked like blunt pencil erasers when recovered while dressing for the meat cutter's shop. One of my sheep hunting partners has shot more trophy bighorns and big bull elk over the last 40 years than anybody I know, and the only hunting bullet he reloads are those same Hornady Interlocks, in all his hunting rifle calibers. I don't know if he's ever even tried anything other than those Hornady's, but they obviously work reliably for Dave.

These days, I think it's rare to find a poor performing hunting bullet on the market - as long as you match the bullet to the performance envelope it was intended for.

 

[Eagleye]

Pretty well all the "first released" Nosler Ballistic tips were quite fragile, and sectioning one showed a pretty thin jacket.
They were quite explosive in game, and penetration suffered as a result.

The Newer "hunting" Ballistic tips are much sturdier, and when sectioned look practically identical to a same-weight AB
That being said, I do not hunt with them, but use them for load development, and switch to the Accubond for hunting.

I had a bad experience with a Hornady 140 grain Interlock from a 270, so have ceased using them if I am chasing them
over 2800 FPS.

I am not a Monometal bullet user, simply because they are unreliable expanders at extended range. I have 2 TTSX bullets
in my possession that were recovered with almost no expansion. Animals required second/third shots to anchor. In all
fairness, both were traveling relatively slow at impact. One a 165 grain 30-06, the other a 250 grain 338.

When I am carrying a magnum that has high velocity capability, I am inclined to develop a Partition load for them. In some
cases the Swift A-Frame gets the nod [8mm Rem Mag] I also like the Swift Scirocco II, and the Accubond. Bullet reliability
is paramount for me, and I have been digging and saving bullets that did not exit for decades. Dave.

 

[WhelanLad]

woodleighs
altho not 165s.. they do make one.. an would look similiar, iff caught in larger game
a 150gr ppsn...

lighter 130 gr 308 cal.. this is huge expansion, others often not as pancaked an plenty of shank left !

 

[Ganderite]

Since nose damage to bullets results in little difference to accuracy, I don't know if your efforts will make much difference other than making you feel better. The importance of feeling better about our ammo should not be minimized; I deburr and uniform the flash holes in my brass, and I'd be hard pressed to prove a tangible benefit, but it makes me feel better. Certainly there are quite a few bullets available that utilize a protected point, but none are as affordable as the Interlocks. If the bullet nose surgery makes you feel better, by all means carry on. It might be worth weighing out your bullets to see to what extent the uniformity has changed, if at all. Another interesting experiment would be to compare the difference in trajectory at 300 yards between altered bullets and pointed bullets.

Back in the day when I had access to a ballistics lab, I ran a test on accurizing 308 match ammo.

A test consisted of 20 rounds fired through a pressure gun (match quality barrel) and we recorded velocity pressure and the pressure graph of each round.

I tested four versions of ammo:

- Unmodified match ammo.
- Deburred flash holes.
- Uniformed primer pockets.
- Both deburred holes and uniformed pockets.

Deburring made a noticeable improvement in velocity/pressure SD and ES.

Pocket uniforming did nothing.

My process for deburring is simple. I install a 1/10" drill bit in an electric drill and touch the flash ole on the inside. The bit chatters a bit as it takes of the flash of the punched holes. Then it runs smooth as it hits the solid web. This process leaves a tiny chamfered divot around the flash hole.

These were Winchester cases. Norma and Lapua holes are perfect and don't need any attention.

It is important that you do not make the flash hole any wider. The smaller the hole diameter, the lower the SD and ES.