Reliable Shotgun Ammo

Sniffer

Sniffer

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I had a discussion recently about shotgun ammo and it was suggested that something had changed with Challenger shotgun ammo which had a negative effect on reliability (it was a change to the hull from memory, might have been the brass rim part).

My shotgun has been playing around for while and the issues are very sporadic. I have changed a bunch of parts (extractor / ejector / springs etc) and cleaned it to the point it looks new. I do shoot a lot of Challenger (or I did when I had time for anything beyond Renos and work) so this discussion made me think.

Has anyone else had any issues with Challenger ammo? And is there a brand that is solid I can try instead?

I don't really know a ton about shotgun ammo beyond bird shot / buck shot / slugs etc so part two of the question is about loads and recoil. From the little of reading I have done on the subject it seems that the main variable is shot weight (ie 7/8oz / 1oz etc etc). From what I can tell lighter shot weight equates to more FPS but lower recoil overall? Is this accurate?

Which does best with reliability?Heavier load with lower FPS or lighter load with more FPS?
 
0faustus0 said:
... and what "issues" are you talking about?

- failure to feed?
- failure to extract?
- failure to eject?
- failure to fire?
- failure to cycle?
Click to expand...
Failure to eject.

Case comes out of the chamber after it is fired but doesn't eject. Usually ends with a double feed / stove pipe type scenario after the gun tries to jam the spent case and new round into the chamber..
 
The only two cartridges that failed to fire ever for me were Challengers ..... both times solid primer strike but no boom ....
And the below image shows a brand new Challenger round that would not even chamber because of the bulge ....


challenger.jpg
 
I use about 75 cases of target shells a year and I would say for the last 4 or so years at least half of that has been Challenger 7.5. I would say about 1/2000 rounds fail to ignite. Visible primer strike but no bang. I've had a few not chamber and it's usually do to damaged "brass"

I've also had failures like these with Federal, Winchester, Remington and FIocchi. I use hardly any Fiocchi but last year got a number of shells without primers in a few cases.

In your case, the fail to eject I would think it's a gun problem more than an ammo problem. Like there is a burr on your extractor or something. But it could also be how your shotgun interacts with the Challenger rims as all the shotgun ammo makers seem to have slightly different styles to them.
 
Sniffer said:
....

Which does best with reliability?Heavier load with lower FPS or lighter load with more FPS?
Click to expand...

There is no correlation between reliability and lighter or heavier loads .... or faster or slower loads.

It doesn't matter if it is a 12ga 2oz turkey load .... or a light 5/8oz mini shell .... those cartridges should all go bang, extract and eject reliably, if they are manufactured to certain tolerances and with a certain quality control.

Now your shotgun is a semiauto .... and semiauto shotguns in general are bit more picky about ammo. For example, a 5/8oz mini shell might not have enough "umphhh" to cycle that gun.

Challenger ammo for me is at the lower end of quality control. Others might disagree.

I would try several different brands of ammo out of your gun .... and see if one particular brand works better than others.
And if none work .... then something is wrong with your gun.
 
Gatehouse said:
I use about 75 cases of target shells a year and I would say for the last 4 or so years at least half of that has been Challenger 7.5. I would say about 1/2000 rounds fail to ignite. Visible primer strike but no bang. I've had a few not chamber and it's usually do to damaged "brass"

I've also had failures like these with Federal, Winchester, Remington and FIocchi. I use hardly any Fiocchi but last year got a number of shells without primers in a few cases.

In your case, the fail to eject I would think it's a gun problem more than an ammo problem. Like there is a burr on your extractor or something. But it could also be how your shotgun interacts with the Challenger rims as all the shotgun ammo makers seem to have slightly different styles to them.
Click to expand...
Yes, that was my thought initially but now the extractor has been swapped and the ejector (twice).

Kinda clutching at straws now as I am running out of ideas.
 
0faustus0 said:
There is no correlation between reliability and lighter or heavier loads .... or faster or slower loads.

It doesn't matter if it is a 12ga 2oz turkey load .... or a light 5/8oz mini shell .... those cartridges should all go bang, extract and eject reliably, if they are manufactured to certain tolerances and with a certain quality control.

Now your shotgun is a semiauto .... and semiauto shotguns in general are bit more picky about ammo. For example, a 5/8oz mini shell might not have enough "umphhh" to cycle that gun.

Challenger ammo for me is at the lower end of quality control. Others might disagree.

I would try several different brands of ammo out of your gun .... and see if one particular brand works better than others.
And if none work .... then something is wrong with your gun.
Click to expand...
This is pretty much where I am at. The problem is that the issue is so sporadic. When I first got the gun it just ran, zero reliability issues.

Agreed on the Challenger being towards the lower end of the quality spectrum.
 
I have a horrible Alpharms SA.

Federal Field feeds most reliably but still has failures to feed due to the front edge of the shell getting caught on the extractor cut out on yhe right side of the breach.

Quite frankly I am almost willing to pay Blackface to take the damn thing.......
 
geologist said:
I have a horrible Alpharms SA.

Federal Field feeds most reliably but still has failures to feed due to the front edge of the shell getting caught on the extractor cut out on yhe right side of the breach.

Quite frankly I am almost willing to pay Blackface to take the damn thing.......
Click to expand...

That is much too good of a deal for Blackface so he will decline it for sure.

There are still a few taxpayer dollars around to be squandered.
 
Next time this happens I would take a real close look at the rim of the shotgun shell and compare it to one that ejected without issues. It could be that the rim is "too rounded" for the ejector to securely latch/extract that particular shell.
 
Sniffer said:
My shotgun has been playing around for while and the issues are very sporadic. I have changed a bunch of parts (extractor / ejector / springs etc) and cleaned it to the point it looks new.
Click to expand...
Have you polished the chamber? The only time I have any extraction problems is if the chamber has some crap in it and I’m using cheap target load, granted this is with pump guns. Just a thought, probably ammo related though.

Never mind, you have an eject issue and not an extraction problem.
 
geologist said:
I have a horrible Alpharms SA.

Federal Field feeds most reliably but still has failures to feed due to the front edge of the shell getting caught on the extractor cut out on yhe right side of the breach.

Quite frankly I am almost willing to pay Blackface to take the damn thing.......
Click to expand...
No! Wrap it around a tree before you do that. :LOL:
 
OP, it sounds like you haven't replicated the extraction issue with other ammo brands yet. As others have said, it could be the ammo, or your particular gun doesn't like that ammo...either way, switch up the shells to a few different makers and learn if they also have extraction issues. If not, steer clear of Challenger shells for your Versamax. They don't like one another.
 
Butcherbill said:
Have you polished the chamber? The only time I have any extraction problems is if the chamber has some crap in it and I’m using cheap target load, granted this is with pump guns. Just a thought, probably ammo related though.

Never mind, you have an eject issue and not an extraction problem.
Click to expand...
Yep, ejection issue but to your question I have polished the chamber (spent a full day cleaning and polishing that gun at one point, cleaned the gas system so it looked like new as I wondered if some blockage or something sticking was the cause of my problem but now I am sure that is not the case)
 
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