Reliable Shotgun Ammo

Painkillers said:
OP, it sounds like you haven't replicated the extraction issue with other ammo brands yet. As others have said, it could be the ammo, or your particular gun doesn't like that ammo...either way, switch up the shells to a few different makers and learn if they also have extraction issues. If not, steer clear of Challenger shells for your Versamax. They don't like one another.
Click to expand...
Yep, I plan to do extensive testing once I find some time. I have lots of brands on hand so hopefully I find something that works reliably as I have signed up for some shotgun matches. An unreliable gun would be a PITA.

To be clear my issue is ejection (shells always extract but don't always seem to get chucked from the gun for some reason)

If the issue turns out to be Challenger ammo then something has changed as that gun used to eat Challenger exclusively with zero issues. I also vaguely remember a time when both my Versamax and Benelli M4 were both having the same issue. Really I need a day to run both and find out where I am at.
 
Sniffer said:
Yep, I plan to do extensive testing once I find some time. I have lots of brands on hand so hopefully I find something that works reliably as I have signed up for some shotgun matches. An unreliable gun would be a PITA.

To be clear my issue is ejection (shells always extract but don't always seem to get chucked from the gun for some reason)

If the issue turns out to be Challenger ammo then something has changed as that gun used to eat Challenger exclusively with zero issues. I also vaguely remember a time when both my Versamax and Benelli M4 were both having the same issue. Really I need a day to run both and find out where I am at.
Click to expand...
12 gauge shells are notoriously inconsistent. What ran reliably last year, not so much this year, so I understand the reason for the original post, I just haven't heard of others having issues with Challenger in a Versamax is all.
 
A few guys with A400's were having issues with ejection with Challemgers seems to be the rim of the hull. They still seem to be Cheddite hulls so not sure if they've changed. I've only used Federal, Fiocchi and Rio in my VM no issues with them.
 
Painkillers said:
12 gauge shells are notoriously inconsistent. What ran reliably last year, not so much this year, so I understand the reason for the original post, I just haven't heard of others having issues with Challenger in a Versamax is all.
Click to expand...

And mine used to run well on Challenger so something has changed (could be with the gun but I doubt it, as I mentioned I have changed the extractor once already and ejector twice so more likely the ammo)

I had someone contact me via PM on this very subject and state the following:

I ran the Challengers exclusively for years in my Versamax but Challenger went and changed the crimp on them which caused extraction issues.
I thought it was an extractor issue so I tried them in 3 other versamax’s and all 3 of them wouldn’t extract or eject them reliably.
I switched to Federal top flights for the last year and I’m not sure if I’ve had a failure to extract or eject since.
 
G_Alan said:
A few guys with A400's were having issues with ejection with Challemgers seems to be the rim of the hull. They still seem to be Cheddite hulls so not sure if they've changed. I've only used Federal, Fiocchi and Rio in my VM no issues with them.
Click to expand...

Good to know. I kinda hope it is ammo related but will need to test to be sure. The biggest issue is that I find the problem to be quite sporadic. I think the gun is fixed and then it jams up again (very frustrating).

I compete and I often say that the easiest way to advance is with a reliable gun. You could be the fastest shooter on the planet but you aint getting a good result if you are clearing jams all day.

I picked up a bunch of different brands, I know I have Federal and I picked up a bunch of Rio too, there might be others.
 
Thinking out loud, if the gun continues to play up and I can prove it is not ammo related I will send it back to Tacord for a "service". I am a little leery about that however as the issue is very sporadic, unless you can see the problem consistently it is hard to correct it.

I talked to Casey recently (super helpful guy and they do top notch work) and I almost bought another gun he had which was new / fully reworked but the capacity thing stopped me (3" guns are in a grey area with regards to getting to max capacity for IPSC). That and the fact that supposedly the Versamax is softer shooting.
 
Two possible issues:
1) Load is too light to fully cycle the gun. Challenger makes a variety of target loads - different lead payloads and different velocities. You can get 1 oz loads @ 1145 fps, and 1300 fps. 25 % more oomph in the latter. Many semis have trouble with the light 1 oz loads at 1200 fps and under.
2) Regardless of rim color, the majority of shells now use steel, rather than brass. When a shell is fired the walls of the case head expand. They are left "tight" in the chamber in varying states of residual stress, depending upon chamber/ shell dimensions, thickness and yield strength of the steel, etc. Some of the combinations lead to a highly stressed head that clings to the chamber - much like a ruptured case in a centrefire rifle. Some brands of shell are more prone to this - cheap Winchester shells come to mind... A rough or poorly formed chamber makes this problem worse.

I think you need to try some other types of ammo. Remington, Winchester AA, and Federal have worked well for me.
 
Last edited:
So I finally got some time to test today.

I ran 5 boxes of ammo (all #7.5 birdshot) through it and found the following:

1) Winchester Universal 1 1/8 oz load. Gun jammed multiple times with this ammo.

2) Federal Field & Range 1 1/8 oz load. Gun jammed multiple times with this ammo.

3) Sellier & Bellot 7/8 oz load. Gun jammed once with this but ran the other 24 with no issue.

4) Federal Top Gun 1 oz load. Gun ran flawless with this ammo.

5) Rio Star Team Evo Training 7/8 oz load. Gun ran flawless with this ammo.

So, it seems that the gun is more reliable with lighter loads. I also had my other gun there (Benelli M4) and it ran on everything with zero issues. The two guns have similarish operating systems and the Benelli is way dirtier. The pistons "rattle" in the VM (so they are free / not jammed).

Still trying to make sense of this. Is shotgun ammo like centre fire pistol ammo in that with a lighter bullet you typically use more powder which may help to cycle the action?

These are the type of failures I saw today with the 1 1/8 oz ammo:

IMG_2338.jpgIMG_2341.jpgIMG_2345.jpg
 
So I was just dealing with this, with my semi auto clay gun. It's an interia driven firearm not gas.

Challenger ammo as well.

I reached out to the manufacturer of the firearm and they mentioned I need higher FPS shells.

The following is from the manufacturer.

A 3-dram load is as follows:
3/4oz at 1350FPS+
7/8oz at 1300FPS+
1oz at 1250FPS+
1-1/8oz at 1200FPS+

I would recommend instead using something like Winchester AA 1-1/8oz at 1200+, Fiocchi Crusher 1oz at 1300+, Rio Star Team EVO 7/8oz at 1360+, Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics 7/8oz at 1350+, or Nobelsport Italia 1-1/8oz 1300+.

Attached is a cycling chart for you to convert ammunition into the dram measurement. This chart can also be found on the Retay FAQ page here: https://www.retayusa.com/retay-usa-frequently-asked-questions/

The last option they offered, is to change out the recoil spring to a reduced power one.

I may end up changing out the recoil spring it's a cheap fix.
 
Last edited:
seaslug said:
So I was just dealing with this, with my semi auto clay gun. It's an interia driven firearm not gas.

Challenger ammo as well.

I reached out to the manufacturer of the firearm and they mentioned I need higher FPS shells.

The following is from the manufacturer.

A 3-dram load is as follows:
3/4oz at 1350FPS+
7/8oz at 1300FPS+
1oz at 1250FPS+
1-1/8oz at 1200FPS+

I would recommend instead using something like Winchester AA 1-1/8oz at 1200+, Fiocchi Crusher 1oz at 1300+, Rio Star Team EVO 7/8oz at 1360+, Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics 7/8oz at 1350+, or Nobelsport Italia 1-1/8oz 1300+.

Attached is a cycling chart for you to convert ammunition into the dram measurement. This chart can also be found on the Retay FAQ page here: https://www.retayusa.com/retay-usa-frequently-asked-questions/

The last option they offered, is to change out the recoil spring to a reduced power one.

I may end up changing out the recoil spring it's a cheap fix.
Click to expand...

Yup, good call on the Rio Star Team Evo 7/8oz. Gun ran like a champ on that stuff. Interesting that it is the highest FPS.....

I still think something is up with the gun as it didnt used to be this fussy.

I have never owned an inertia gun but I have read that they run very clean (obviously no gas being used to cycle the gun). Some of the info I have studied is very conflicting with one of the leading lights in UK shotgun stating he moved to inertia and could run way lighter loads (which he could not do in his gas gun).

If it is as easy as swapping out a recoil spring it is totally worth the effort.
 
Sniffer said:
Yup, good call on the Rio Star Team Evo 7/8oz. Gun ran like a champ on that stuff. Interesting that it is the highest FPS.....

I still think something is up with the gun as it didnt used to be this fussy.

I have never owned an inertia gun but I have read that they run very clean (obviously no gas being used to cycle the gun). Some of the info I have studied is very conflicting with one of the leading lights in UK shotgun stating he moved to inertia and could run way lighter loads (which he could not do in his gas gun).

If it is as easy as swapping out a recoil spring it is totally worth the effort.
Click to expand...
I have yet to try any of the different shells.

The distributer is sending me a lighter recoil spring free of charge. I'll be swapping out to that as I'd rather run challenger because they're Canadian made.
 
My Benelli M4 suffered from a very similar situation with the hulls failing to eject or sometimes halfways extract. The issue was only with the score buckshot I had.... Bought a case of it years ago and it always had intermittant failures.

Everyother brand of ammo ran just fine. Including the score slugs.... So go figure, maybe just a bad batch or a rim thing like the OP mentioned.
 
I would check your dog follower, I've worn out 2 on my versamax, and replace the dog follower spring as well.

The only issues my versamax has ever had has been with challenger shells, Primers that wouldn't ignite even after being struck multiple times. with good indents. and the other issue was the Rim was too wide and was dragging and getting caught in the receiver, This was probably 7 years ago now, But I never went back to them.
 
I ran a bunch of Score slugs the other day with zero issues.

I have a bunch so plan on using them for competition.
 
Craig0ry said:
I would check your dog follower, I've worn out 2 on my versamax, and replace the dog follower spring as well.

The only issues my versamax has ever had has been with challenger shells, Primers that wouldn't ignite even after being struck multiple times. with good indents. and the other issue was the Rim was too wide and was dragging and getting caught in the receiver, This was probably 7 years ago now, But I never went back to them.
Click to expand...
Dog follower spring?

Gonna need some education if you please.
 
This spring here, The dog follower its attached to it, How does yours look? My gun beats the crap out of them, Benelli M2 is a direct replacement. Also had issues until I replaced the spring. The two other spots I have the pen pointed at I keep a little grease on, Without it my gun will start have issues. Once there's some on there it will run hundreds of rounds at a time zero issues.
Also posed the marks where challenger shells would bind against the receiver walls

OpAjljZ.jpeg

yDVF1ky.jpeg

byEKwIf.jpeg

9oROEBq.jpeg

EkyPifu.jpeg
 
Last edited:
I do a fair bit of sporting clays all yr long. Over 5000 rounds on average. I use quite a few reloads, and most makes of target factory ammo, Remington (gun clubs and Nitro's), Federal (Top Guns and Gold Medal Grand), Winchester AA's annnd the lowly Challenger's !

I've had more FTF and dud primers in factory ammo from the Fed Top Guns than any other brand.
That being said, I do pierce only the Challenger primers in all my reloaded rounds.

Challenger was always the cheapest ammo around, and during covid years, the only ammo available for purchase.
Most of our shooting clubs are still buying the Challenger ammo because of their commitment to us (the shooters) when no one else was worried about us canucks during those yrs ! We still buy it, try to keep supporting a Canadian company.

Seaslug has it right... semi's should run better with the 3 dram loads. That's all I run in my Maxus and my SX3 and never an issue(both gas guns tho)
I presume you already have, but, if you haven't yet, give your gun's internals a real good scrub & cleaning....maybe polish the chamber with a brush wound with #0000 steel wool and a bit of oil on it. See if thgat makes a diff for you.

Hope you gitter figured out...kindly keep us in the loop...enquiring minds want to know...LOL
 
kevin g said:
I do a fair bit of sporting clays all yr long. Over 5000 rounds on average. I use quite a few reloads, and most makes of target factory ammo, Remington (gun clubs and Nitro's), Federal (Top Guns and Gold Medal Grand), Winchester AA's annnd the lowly Challenger's !

I've had more FTF and dud primers in factory ammo from the Fed Top Guns than any other brand.
That being said, I do pierce only the Challenger primers in all my reloaded rounds.

Challenger was always the cheapest ammo around, and during covid years, the only ammo available for purchase.
Most of our shooting clubs are still buying the Challenger ammo because of their commitment to us (the shooters) when no one else was worried about us canucks during those yrs ! We still buy it, try to keep supporting a Canadian company.

Seaslug has it right... semi's should run better with the 3 dram loads. That's all I run in my Maxus and my SX3 and never an issue(both gas guns tho)
I presume you already have, but, if you haven't yet, give your gun's internals a real good scrub & cleaning....maybe polish the chamber with a brush wound with #0000 steel wool and a bit of oil on it. See if thgat makes a diff for you.

Hope you gitter figured out...kindly keep us in the loop...enquiring minds want to know...LOL
Click to expand...

Tried deep cleaning a couple of times and last time around that progressed to polishing with steel wool etc like you mention. I could probably have shaved using the reflection on the guns internals by the end.

Gun still seems fussier than I remember it being when I first got it but it did run like a champ the other with certain ammo as mentioned above, some of the other heavier loads caused jams.

I have a lot of Challenger on hand but until I can trust the VM to run reliably with it, it will stay locked up.

If the Beretta Pro Comp ever is offered with a 3.5" receiver my credit card will be busy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom