Reloading for 357 mag in a carbine. School me

S

sgt.rock

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Yellowknife, N.W.T.
I live in a place that has not much for components to buy. I have never reloaded for .357mag. I bought the only 3 boxes of factory ammo in town. But resupply is scarce and sporadic at best.
I have a set of lee dies on the way. For powders I have clays, titegroup and powerpistol. (Thats all I can find up here, shipping powder/primers costs too much to the NWT)
I have 500 campro 158gr truncated cone bullets coming. I also have about 500 x 158gr semiwadcutter lead bullets on hand. I have small and large pistol primers.
For guns I have a Ruger GP100 4.2" and a Rossi M92 16" lever rifle.
Where do I start? I really want to load up some hot rounds for Black Bear and wolf in the near future once I master reloading this round. I understand that neither bullet I have on hand would be first choice for hunting. How fast can an un-gas checked lead bullet be driven before barrel leading becomes an issue?
I dont know if I should use the Lee crimp die or figure out how to roll crimp??
I plan on getting some jacketed bullets to hunt with, but want to use up a lot of the bullets I have on hand first to practice reloading for the carbine and just practicing and familiarizing with the sights.
Are the components I have on hand sufficient, or should I wait and try to get some H110 or 2400 powder and jacketed bullets?
 
sgt.rock said:
I live in a place that has not much for components to buy. I have never reloaded for .357mag. I bought the only 3 boxes of factory ammo in town. But resupply is scarce and sporadic at best.
I have a set of lee dies on the way. For powders I have clays, titegroup and powerpistol. (Thats all I can find up here, shipping powder/primers costs too much to the NWT)
I have 500 campro 158gr truncated cone bullets coming. I also have about 500 x 158gr semiwadcutter lead bullets on hand. I have small and large pistol primers.
For guns I have a Ruger GP100 4.2" and a Rossi M92 16" lever rifle.
Where do I start? I really want to load up some hot rounds for Black Bear and wolf in the near future once I master reloading this round. I understand that neither bullet I have on hand would be first choice for hunting. How fast can an un-gas checked lead bullet be driven before barrel leading becomes an issue?
I dont know if I should use the Lee crimp die or figure out how to roll crimp??
I plan on getting some jacketed bullets to hunt with, but want to use up a lot of the bullets I have on hand first to practice reloading for the carbine and just practicing and familiarizing with the sights.
Are the components I have on hand sufficient, or should I wait and try to get some H110 or 2400 powder and jacketed bullets?
Click to expand...
Not directly applicable, but I used Campro plated bullets in my 44 Blackhawk and 45 ranch hand. I didn’t have problems driving 240gr at 1400 from the Blackhawk and 250gr with another grain of H110 out of the ranch hand. People say 2400 a cleaner burning powder and I have to agree I saw the same thing. Not as good for max loads though. I like big boomers that push a bit though. 1200 rnds through the Blackhawk before I sold it.
 
I am having great results with Littl'e gun powder with 180 gr bullet, this powder permitted me to push safely over 1700 fps in a 20 inch rifle and keeping a 1.5 MOA..

I am just south of 1200 pounds of energy, very potent load for WT up to 100 metres. JP.
 
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Reloading for 357, 357 light and 38 special very easy to do. I assume you have a reloading manual, if not get one. Your lee dies will work fine. Make certain you have a decent crimp on round to hold the bullet in place under magnum recoil. 2400 is good I’ve also used blue dot and unique with good results. Your gp100 will handle magnum loads well. I’ve used missouri lead bullets 158 grain, bhn of about 18, with minimal leading, ie;easyenough to clean after a 100 round range session. I’ve also made and used homemade lee 158 swc with similar results though i run these a little slower as they were softer. Good mushrooming with these. However, for game that might kll you if you piss them off or if they’re just in an ornery mood I’d go with a heavy bullet like a 200gn. Closer distances would be necessary so practice aim and shooting under pressure situations and rapid followup shots. Bear are very quick.
 
I think I would skip CLAYS & TITEGROUP powders. If you are wanting performance, use PowerPistol.
The 2020 Alliant Reloaders guide shows a 158 grain Speer DCHP bullet using 8.5 grains of PP for 1078 fps. Seems pretty mild but the plated Campro 158’s will work just fine in the Ruger & the carbine...
 
While I don't have a 357 rifle currently, I've been where you are. Titegroup and Clays, low velocity/great mileage so to speak, and not for hunting loads. I've used 2400 powder with 158 grain GC lead bullets, and IIRC 1700-1800 fps is very easy to achieve. You get quite a velocity bump out of a rifle barrel (obviously). As for knowing how fast is too fast, your rifle will tell you. When it goes from shooting groups to patterns, you've hit the point of no return for your lead hardness, at least in my experience. H-110 should also work really well for top velocities.
 
As you probably know, load for the handgun. With the longer barrel on the rifle you will get carbine velocities. Make sure they are all within specs to be safe. The 158 swc are a great round for both.
 
I have been using titegroup on .357 158 grain campro plated bullets for plinking because I have a lot of it on hand as well. Been loading 5.5 grains and works well for what I'm doing in my Marlin 1894c. I want to try some h110 and compare at some point with magnum primers. Don't have a chrono yet, when I acquire one I will test different loads.
 
Titegroup for the 158 lead bullets. 4.0 to 5.0 gr

PowerPistol for the plated bullets. 6.0 to 7.5 gr These can be loaded up a bit, but keep the lead bullets mild.

Measure the OAL of a factory round. make absolutely sure you don't load a round any longer, or it can hang up when trying to feed in the carbine.

If you want full power, buy jacketed bullets and use 2400 or H110 (Win 296).

It is easy to set your seater die to do a roll crimp.

Back out the seater stem on the seater die. Install a loaded factory round and run it up all the way. Screw the die down until the die hits the factory round. Drop the round down and turn the die in another 1/8 of a turn and lock the die in place with the locking ring. Set the set screw on the ring, so it does not move.

The die is now set to give you a good crimp. It may need fine tuning of up or down a bit for more or less crimp with your brass.

With the factory round in the die, screw the seater stem down till it touches the bullet. This gives you a good starting point for seating your bullets.
 
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Ganderite already wrote a lot of what I was going to. A couple things I'll add :
if you have a chronograph you can load your lead bullets to just under the speed of sound - 1100 FPS from your carbine. That's the 'sweet spot" for me with a bunch of bullets from my Rossi carbine. Various fast burning pistol powders can be used for that job. The "trick" is to avoid pushing a carbine bullet just faster than the speed of sound. That also help avoid lead deposits in your barrel until you know more about cast bullets. At 1250- 1300 fps muzzle velocity, I have had wonky longer distance accuracy results from the bullet dropping back under the speed of sound during flight but before hitting the target. So I stick to jacketed or specialty hard cast / gas check bullets at 1700-1800 fps muzzle velocity achieved with book maximum loads of W296/H110 or 2400 or Lil gun, and the rest are "mild" lead bullet loads at good target punching velocity - 1100 fps. If you don't have a chronograph, I found that data for handguns showing lead bullets at 900 or so FPS from a revolver would be about right for achieving 1050-1100 fps from a carbine. You can use either .38 special or .357 brass for the target loads, but use only good .357 magnum brass for the high power loads.
I have a Lyman receiver sight on my Rossi, which helps a lot when switching between high power and plinking loads. There is a definite difference in height / point of impact. Quick, positive adjustments on the Lyman make it a winner.
 
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Just a note... If you don't have any .38 pistols to worry about mixing up the ammo in .38 brass is perfectly suitable for .357 mag level loads. The only reason the .357 is longer is to prevent use in .38s. The original, very impressive .357 loads were developed with .38sp brass...
 
Yes, and I was just out shooting / developing a load today for my Rossi using .38 brass and the Lyman 358156 cast bullet. It has two crimping grooves so that the proper OAL can be maintained when using that bullet for magnum level loads when loaded in .38 brass. BUT it is very dangerous to simply say you can use .357 loads in .38 brass. You can't without very dangerous pressures in most instances because case capacity is so different. A full house .357 magnum load loaded in .38 brass and crimped where most bullets have their single crimping groove, will result in a load with extreme high pressure. Internal case volume must be similar for pressures to be similar. Significantly decrease case volume, with a full magnum load of powder, and you will be stressing your firearm or possibly blowing it up.
 
^ good thing I never said you can use .357 load data in .38 brass then eh? You can load to near or the same level. It will require load development, obviously.
 
B said:
^ good thing I never said you can use .357 load data in .38 brass then eh? You can load to near or the same level. It will require load development, obviously.
Click to expand...

Still not good advice for a new reloader. Your statement is ambiguous and could very easily be mis-interpreted. When you say 357 magnum level loads are you talking about getting the 357 velocity out of a 38 case?
 
It IS possible and safe to get .357 level velocity and pressure from a .38 case, but only with a very few bullets that can be crimped when seated further out in the .38 case, to match .357 magnum length over all. And I feel better doing it with new or once fired cases marked +P, not just any old range pick up. To do otherwise is foolish and dangerous.
 
Rossi M92 16" lever rifle i believe has a 1/32 twist ... it might have a hard time stabilizing a bullet over 158g

the rifle loads will be 2-300 fps faster in the rifle compared to the gp100
 
In a revolver, you can drop any shape bullet into the cylinder, but in a rifle it will have to feed into the chamber.

I had a friend with a Marlin 1894 rifle and his first reloads would jam when feeding. It turned out to be the shape and flat sides of the Sierra bullet tip causing it to not chamber. Meaning a bullet with a rounded frontal area will feed better.
 
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