reloading for 45-70 Gov lever guns

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Curtis264

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Just on hodgdon reloading site http://hodgdonreloading.com in there they have a receipt for 300gr JHP using H4198 starting load is 55gr and max is 60grs, has anyone tried this, every reloading manual I have from Lyman, Nosler, Hornaday, is quite a bit lower, if fact starting loads on Hogdon are higher than all the max loads from other companies
Thanks for any help
 
In my real Marlin pre-safety {JM} 1895 I load 54gr of IMR 3031/300gr Hornady for a 3 shot .536" group at 100 yards. Stepping up to 350gr/44gr of IMR 4198 cuts .504" with a 4x Leupold aging eyes. Could load stiffer but why with this accuracy and recoil is brisk.
 
The Lyman manual has them up there too. I generally load 400gr and up with either 4895 or 4198. Those numbers for a 300gr bullet don't seem far off. It'll be a thumper.
 
I use either trailboss or 3031, though I do have some 4198 that I haven't tried. I've shot up to 59gr of 3031 with a 350gr fmj and was getting just under 2000fps through a (18.5" gbl)

Yes, I found the starting/max loads did vary from source to source. I emailed hodgon about their starting loads and they said they were safe, so I went with their data.
 
Remlin 1895GS with WWG retrofits (trigger, ejector) and Brownells cowboy action spring kit.
I knew I was buying into a project with the Remlin and I did a lot of fitting and polishing over the course of last winter.
It's now a superbly accurate and smooth cycling rifle.
A stiff load of IMR-3031 behind a 405 grain Woodleigh Weldcore bullet in WW cases touched off by CCI-200 primer gets it done for me.
Good elk/moose load.
Always liked IMR-3031 in the 45-70 leverguns.
 
In my Remlin 1895GBL 45-70, I'm shooting the Sierra #8900 bullet, a 300 grain JHP on top of 55 gr. of H4198. It gives me an average speed of 2150 fps - 15 fps SD.

5 shot group at 50 yds from the 18.5" barrel
rXQS0uGl.jpg


The Hodgdon 2017 & 2018 Annuals and the Hodgdon 2018 Basic Reloading Manual also list this load. It is a stout load. My testing was done from a bench using a weighted Lead Sled.
 
CzyHorse said:
In my Remlin 1895GBL 45-70, I'm shooting the Sierra #8900 bullet, a 300 grain JHP on top of 55 gr. of H4198. It gives me an average speed of 2150 fps - 15 fps SD.

5 shot group at 50 yds from the 18.5" barrel
rXQS0uGl.jpg


The Hodgdon 2017 & 2018 Annuals and the Hodgdon 2018 Basic Reloading Manual also list this load. It is a stout load. My testing was done from a bench using a weighted Lead Sled.
Click to expand...

Did you see any over pressure signs
 
Great thread!
I’ve yet to load up full power loads, been enjoying Unique and cast 405g so much I haven’t loaded anything hotter.
 
I have an antique 45-70 rifle.
Presently using 13.0 grains trail boss under Bullet Barns 420 cast lead PB bullet.
Very accurate at 50 and passable deer hunting accuracy at 100 yards, of 3-4 inches, with its very basic sights. Estimated velocity just a little bit over 1000 fps.
 
About 16 years ago when I first got my Browning 1885 highwall BPCR, I loaded 300 gr HP & 55 gr 4198.
This gave about 2600 fps out of the 30" bbl
Recoil was bad at the bench, most people only tried 1 shot. It was easier to take from standing so body could flex.
Accuracy was good, with iron sights got 1 MOA out to 450 yds.
Since then, gone to cast lead 500 gr & 550 gr using an old surplus powder ( same as 4831sc) and shoot long distance.
Gun gives good accuracy, the problem is me & wind.
 
Curtis264 said:
Just on hodgdon reloading site http://hodgdonreloading.com in there they have a receipt for 300gr JHP using H4198 starting load is 55gr and max is 60grs, has anyone tried this, every reloading manual I have from Lyman, Nosler, Hornaday, is quite a bit lower, if fact starting loads on Hogdon are higher than all the max loads from other companies
Thanks for any help
Click to expand...

Hodgdon's has three loading levels at the link you posted.

45-70 Government Trap Door Rifles

45-70 Government Lever Actions

45-70 Government Modern Firearms

So go back and select the 45-70 loading data for a lever actions.

The load you listed is for "Modern Firearms" like the Ruger #3 carbine the baby version of the Ruger #1 single shot rifle I had in 45-70 that could be almost loaded as hot as a .458 Winchester Magnum.

The problem with the Ruger #3 carbine was it only weighed 5 1/2 pounds and for some reason 500 grain bullets would cause nose bleeds and pain when fired.

I highly recommend the Hornady 300 grain hollow point bullets, they should be plenty big enough for a Tyrannosaurus Rex, a woolly mammoth etc. :evil:
 
bigedp51 said:
Hodgdon's has three loading levels at the link you posted.

45-70 Government Trap Door Rifles

45-70 Government Lever Actions

45-70 Government Modern Firearms

So go back and select the 45-70 loading data for a lever actions.

The load you listed is for "Modern Firearms" like the Ruger #3 carbine the baby version of the Ruger #1 single shot rifle I had in 45-70 that could be almost loaded as hot as a .458 Winchester Magnum.

The problem with the Ruger #3 carbine was it only weighed 5 1/2 pounds and for some reason 500 grain bullets would cause nose bleeds and pain when fired.

I highly recommend the Hornady 300 grain hollow point bullets, they should be plenty big enough for a Tyrannosaurus Rex, a woolly mammoth etc. :evil:
Click to expand...

Actually, the load I listed is for lever guns
View attachment 214488
 
Curtis264 said:
Actually, the load I listed is for lever guns
View attachment 214488
Click to expand...

The link you posted has 60.0 grains max of H4198 at 40,000 cup and the Sierra 300 grain HP

The Hornady manual for the Marlin 1895 45-70
300 grain Hornady HP max load 51.2 H4198

Sierra manual for the Marlin 1895 45-70
300 grain Sierra HP/FN max load 54.2 H4198

The Speer #14 manual for lever actions 45-70
300 grain FN/HP max load 43.0 H4198

Hornady manual for the .458 Winchester Magnum
300 grain Hornady HP max load 50.3 of H4198

Sierra manual for .458 Winchester Magnum
300 grain Sierra HP max load 68.0 of H4198

I would certainly start low and work up due to all the variations in the manuals and bullet types.
 
Curtis264 said:
Just on hodgdon reloading site http://hodgdonreloading.com in there they have a receipt for 300gr JHP using H4198 starting load is 55gr and max is 60grs, has anyone tried this, every reloading manual I have from Lyman, Nosler, Hornaday, is quite a bit lower, if fact starting loads on Hogdon are higher than all the max loads from other companies
Thanks for any help
Click to expand...

I share your concern. I consider 55 gr to be about max and more is +P territory.

I suggest you load 3 each of 50, 53 and 55 and see how the groups and recoil are.

55 gr of 4198 is a lot of energy.
 
Caliber: 45/70 Gov't
Rifle brand: Marlin
Rifle Model: 1895 Guide Gun
Sights: Bushnell Legend Ultra HD scope, 1.75-5X32mm
Projectile brand, model and weight: Jet Bullets (Gunnutz handle JetHunter) 425grain cast, gas checks
Powder brand and weight: Dominion D4198 - 38.5g.... Canada Ammo house brand
LOAD CONSIDERED HOT OR CLOSE TO MAX: No
Primers: Dominion large rifle primers
Coal: 2.483"
Brass: Winchester, new
Brass length:2.100
Lee Factory Crimped

I'm new to 45/70 so I found it a bit tough on the shoulder for me wearing only a t-shirt while shooting off a bench with sandbag. I took a few standing shots and it was better...should be more comfortable with a hunting coat on.
I started at 36.5grain of D4198 and loaded 5 rounds each increasing by .5grains. This was the best group at 100 yards.

View attachment 215098
 
The Hodgdon 2017 & 2018 Annuals, Lee's Modern Reloading 2nd Edition and the On-Line Hodgdon information all list the same info for H4198. As a newbie reloader I felt after finding the same information listed in more than one location that I should be safe. I got my LGS to get me in some #8900 Sierra JHP bullets and bought a jug of H4198. LGS did not have CCI primers in stock I got Winchester LRP. Then I started with my used Federal brass at the Min. amount of powder in the listed load data. During initial testing the chrono velocities when compared to the listed load data made sense, I was about 70 fps slower using a 5.5 inch shorter barrel than to one used to create the data. Again this was in the 10-15 fps difference I'd read to expect from different barrel lengths. The initial velocity tests where pretty consistent with a 15.7 fps Standard of Deviation from the Average Velocity of 2154 fps. The initial ~1" 5 shot group at 50 yds I though was more than good enough for a 'bush' rifle, my shots will be at max 60 yds. Tuned scope for centre & zero @ 100 yds. Plan now is to just target practice for deer season shooting the gong at various distances.

Somewhere when I was reading about reloading for the Marlin 1895 45-70 I seen, "If your brass is showing excessive pressure signs you are exceeding the pressure limits of this rifle and asking for trouble.", don't ask me where I can't find it ATM. That said, with this load I've had no issues with hard to eject 'sticky' brass and the brass does not required a great effort to resize. BUT after target practice the other day with the same brass loaded for the 2nd time at this powder quantity, I did noticed the 'Winchester Large Rifle Primers' I'm using have moved back and are sitting flush with the rim and have started to flatten, not totally flat, just started to take the little bit of roundness out of the shape of the primers when compared to an unshot load. I will not be pushing things further than 55.0 grains of H4198. NOTE this brass has been reloaded numerous times - maybe primer pockets are getting loose? The next round of reloads will be in new Starline Brass.

It's definitely not a plinking load, target practice, standing or sitting, shooting the gong the recoil is manageable, I do not recommend shooting from a bench without a weighted lead sled. Once the scope/sights are set-up using bench and lead sled I know any misses are my fault not the rifles. ATM with this load, it's point & shoot, free hand or sitting, on the 1/2" AR500 gong @ 25-100 yds.

Crappy scan of page 142 Hodgdon 2017 Annual
81DIV3mh.jpg
 
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