Reloading shotgun hulls?

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huntingfish

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Hi!
A while ago, I had inquired about reloading rifle cartridges. At the time, it wasn't the best idea as I was already swamped and didn't have a whole lot of time to devote to the hobby. I still don't think that rifle reloading is right for me just yet, however I am trying to find a kind of ammo I really liked (Federal copper plated 20ga) and can't find them anywhere! So I slowly started looking at what's available in terms of reloading for a 20ga (possibly for 12ga and .410 as well...maybe 28 in the futur if I purchase one). I stumbled across the Lee Load All 2 and it seems simple enough...maybe too simple which would limit flexibility in choosing reloading components?

I'd love to be able to reload 12, 20, maybe 28 in the future and .410.
Ideally, I'd love to be able to do shot shells with premium components for hunting small game (mainly upland for now, maybe a wabbit or two).

What I like about the prospect of reloading shots is that unlike a rifle, there's a bit more wiggle room. The shot isn't expected to hit a single point on the target since it spreads a bit. Which I would imagine, doesn't require as much fiddling with load development.

Am-I being realistic?

Also, any good documentation to read on the subject? Do they cover shotgun hull reloading in manuals? I always will try to watch a couple of video's on youtube about the subject when I have a few spare minutes.

Where do you guys get your reloading supplies from in Canada? I'll do some window drueling on their website ;-) I saw that Cabelas has the Lee Load All 2 for 110$, which sounds resonnable.

Cheers!

David
 
now is a bad time to get into reloading.

components are going to be hard to find and when you do find it expensive.

I picked up a case of Challenger ammo the other day cause my preferred ammo is no longer available. the factory can't get the components to make more. so when I ran out, i'll have to shoot the challengers.
 
For learning about reloading shot shells, Lyman Shot Shell Reloading Handbook is hard to beat. Reloading shotshells is not like reloading centerfire rifle shells - you do not "work up" a load - pressure is too low for home figuring out - your shotgun will come apart without shells showing pressure signs - so pretty basic first step - must find a published pressure-tested recipe and follow it exactly - same hull size and brand, same wad, same primer, same powder, same shot weight - especially when starting, do not substitute any component - find the appropriate recipe and follow it exactly. Various organizations like Lyman or BPI do have pressure test labs to test combinations of various components - I do not have access to that, and not anyone that I know has either. Does not seem to matter about shot size - can be #8 or #2 - but the weight of the payload is important. Can NOT interchange data developed for lead shot and then use steel shot.

Is not as onerous as it may sound - for example, that Lyman Shot Shell Reloading Manual has from page 128 to page 179 of 2 3/4" 12 gauge lead shot loads - various brands of hulls, powders, wads, etc. Read the book - do what it says to do. Do not do what it says do not do. Will be a good start.

The first 1/4 or third of that book has discussion and pictures "how" to reload shot shells - the balance of the book is mostly pressure tested recipes.

Supplies - I have bought stuff various places over the years - wads at Wholesale Sports (I am dating myself with that!!), Cabela's, CGN EE, etc. Most recently from bilozir.net via Internet - mostly seems to have BPI based stuff. Finding and buying lead shot really sucks out here on the Prairies - I do not know what you have available where you are.
 
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My son goes to a school that has a hunting shop 30 seconds away. Anytime he misses the bus and I have to drive him to school, I make a habbit of stopping by and purchasing a box. They usually only have the target loads, which is fine for grouse anyways.

So I am not in dire need of ammo at the moment. But I'd like to have the possibility of making my own eventually. All the "tweaking a load" part of reloading for rifle was a bit of a turn off for me.

Potashminer: So you need to find a recipe for what you want to do and find all the exact same components (except shot size, which can differ except in weight).

I found the Lyman book on amazon,...going to order it.

Also, I've watched the MEC 600 Jr tutorial online. WOW. Smooth operation. Can you simply change 1-2 parts and be able to reload different gauges? If that's the case, can it also be done with the Lee load all 2?

Cheers,
David
 
I do not know what is possible for altering the loading machines for other gauges. I only reload for 28 gauge - I had been able to find sensible priced ammo for other gauges, but 28 gauge seemed to be the one that might have made most sense, to me, at the time. My machine is MEC brand - might be the JR machine - is put away now, and not really sure which version it is. Again, was bought some years ago at Wholesale Sports - so has some years on it now. Sometimes there are odd little "cheats" that help - like I am sure that Challenger shells are made with Chedditte hulls - so appear to be able to be handily reloaded using Chedditte hull data. And might be different recipe for the Winchester HS hulls. And so on. Just going from memory and not to be quoted as truth - but I am sure the loads that I use with Challenger head stamped hulls use Chedditte brand primers, Federal brand wads and Hodgdon Universal powder - I think ...

EDIT: in a shotshell reloading manual, where I tucked it away, I found the User Manual that came with my reloading machine - is an MEC 600 JR Mark5 machine. Very back page says copywrite 1997 Mayville Engineering Co., Ltd.
 
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I have MEC 600 JR MKV's in all the gauges mentioned. I use mostly AA and AAHS but for a long range pheasant thumper in the .28 I use Cheditte hulls with a BPI HV-Magnum wad/30gr H-110/7/8oz shot @1320fps.
 
I'm starting my road on reloading shotshells. I want some unobtainium shells , so in a way it makes sense for me. Still, I think it would have been cheaper just to buy a new shot gun and pick up factory ! *ell ! You can buy a carton of 12ga for under $100 at Cabelas, dirt cheap for BANG. I enjoy reloading rifle cartridges, but shotshells are different breed. The pressures are so close to the maximum, just a few hundred psi. lee way, that you have to follow the recipe to letter. On the Lees, they are one gauge only, on others it's such a PITA to change over, everybody simply buys another press. This is even before you take into account the component shortages. Remember, on rifle cartridge you can change them ,on shotshells, you can't. So the search goes on.
 
OP - is also some things to be aware buying a shot shell reloading machine - I am quite sure that my machine originally came with a "charging bar" that had, I think, three "cups"(called bushings) for powder and 2 or three for shot - so that was the choices that I had. With all the rest, I had to find a recipe that also matched to those cups' rated capacity. The loader dispenses powder and shot by volume - does not actually weigh it - you can verify on your own scale if you want? I later bought an "adjustable" charging bar - so I can set the weight of shot and weight of powder as I wish - which of course, got set once, many years ago, with my scale - and has never been moved since, because I have never used a different recipe. So quite likely, one pair of those fixed "cups" might have worked fine. Is or was a "thing" at one time to drill out, or file out those cups for minor capacity adjustments, to be verified with your scale??
 
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Huntingfish
Not to put a damper on your reloading interests but Sail in Ottawa had Challenger and Federal 20 and 12 gauge target available today for $85/250. Their shipment arrived last night. You may want to check your local Sail to see if it was their lucky day as well! If anything it will also give you some hulls to potentially reload. I bought the 20 ga Federal target that seems good for the price but haven’t shot it yet but I find the Federal better than the Challenger.
 
huntingfish: As already mentioned, the Lyman Shotshell Reloading Manual is an excellent resource, which will offer all the basic information needed to turn out good shotshells. For further loading information(Load recipes), pick up the Hodgdon Basic Reloading Manual. Should be available for free, at most sporting goods stores. Another good online resource: Hodgdon Reloading Data Centre. Plenty of good load recipes available there, too.

The Lee Load All is a good press on which to learn the basics of shotshell reloading. You're right, it is somewhat limited. Mostly since it lacks adjustability. Pre-crimp, crimp especially. But no real detriment to turning out good shotshells.

With the Load All, a bit more care needs to be taken when building a load column...., poor "dished in" crimp, etc. But that's about it. Not really an issue most of the time, but bears mentioning. Otherwise, a good value for the money. Have loaded many thousands of good shotshells on one of these presses, without issue.

A better press, though pricier, is a MEC. The various MEC models all being excellent machines capable of turning out good shotshells. One big advantage MEC has over its Lee counterpart, is each loading station is fully adjustable...ie: wad pressure, pre-crimp, crimp, etc. Makes it very easy to dial in the perfect load for a particular gun or shooting need. Worth looking into. How-to videos are available on you tube.

Full information on which shot/powder bushings to use for various recipes, is included in your Lyman/Hodgdon reloading manuals. Also readily available, online.

A more versatile shot/powder dispensing system is an adjustable charge bar. As Potashminer correctly points out, these can be adjusted to throw various powder/shot charges. Which eliminates the need for separate powder/shot bushings. Have used adjustable charge bars for years. Would not go back to using bushings, now.

If using bushings, its always a good idea to verify the charge(especially powder) against a scale.

As for reloading components, ie: primers, wads, powder etc., these should be available through your local gun shop. If not, a good source in Ontario: Hummason. Likewise: Lawry's. Will ship. Hummason also stocks MEC parts.

Hulls....especially 12 gauge hulls.... you should be able to pick up for free at your local gun club. Trap shooters discard 12 gauge hulls by the garbage can full. Since you wish to start with 20 gauge, you can simply use the hulls you have on hand now, and go from there. For hunting purposes, likely all you will need for now. Don't know of a source for once-fired 20 gauge hulls right offhand. But there may be some out there.

Good hulls for reloading: Remington Premier, STS or Game Club. Winchester AA-HS. Federal Gold Medal or Target hulls. Cheddite.

Parts kits for both the Load All and MEC are available, to swap one gauge for another. But....as downwindtracker2 mentions, can become a hassle if frequently changing back and forth. With the Load All being so inexpensive, most reloaders simply purchase a second dedicated press.

Hope this helps.

Al
 
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Shotshell reloading is definitely more finicky than rifle reloading, and less justifiable from an economics perspective in 12 and 20 gauge. If your motivation is based upon the scarcity of factory ammo, you are going to get frustrated trying to find the exact components needed for a given recipe. As a minimum, you will need to have a local source of shot, as shipping is painful. Run away from the Lee loader, there are lots of used MEC's being sold on the EE.
 
cosmic: You are quite right. From a purely cost perspective, reloading 12 gauge, in particular... may not be practical. In some cases. Reloading 12 gauge becomes a useful option though, where factory ammo choices are limited. Plenty of cheap 1 oz., 1 1/8 oz. loads etc. on retailer's shelves. But... what if the shooter needs something different? Say....a soft recoiling, 3/4 oz. or 7/8 oz load? For small game hunting or competition. Then in my opinion, reloading makes sense. Even more so, in 16 gauge, 28 or 410.

If a shooter merely wants to bang away, then...no argument here. Buying cheap factory loads is the way to go. I prefer to reload, as it gives me full control of the process. I can choose to load the best ammo that delivers the best performance in my guns. For whatever purpose.

The cost savings are there, too. When compared to the cost of a box of premium shotshell ammo. You are right though. Unless a person can source shot locally, shipping is a killer. I am fortunate to live a short, half hour drive from Hummason. Even with current high fuel prices, that still helps keep costs down.

Besides, I like to reload. Plus, it's relaxing and a great stress reliever.

Al
 
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Lightning Rod: As you already know, the Lee Load All is capable of turning out decent loads. Once you understand its quirks and limitations and learn how best to use it. Have no idea how many good shells I've loaded with mine, over the years. Several thousand. Switched over to a MEC around 1980. The Lee still sees use. Primarily for loading black powder shot shells. I consider the Load All good value for the money.
 
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There's a MEC press in the EE right now for a fair price I think: I sent a PM to the person to inquire. Seems to be missing the primer capping thingy (scientific name). I wonder how much it would cost to convert it to 20ga though.

There's a MEC press setup for 20ga on GP, but the price is pretty steep @ 250$. That's not even shipped yet ;-( I did inquire about it as well.


@cosmic: It's more picky than rifle loading?!
 
huntingfish: Go to the Bilozir Fine Guns site, for MEC conversion kit pricing. Will be approx. $200. Plus tax. This may help decide which route to take.

Cosmic likely meant that when reloading shotshells, a person needs to stick strictly to the published load data. Little or no variation in components or powder charges, etc., is allowed. Unlike working up loads for metallic cartridges.

Al
 
Conversion kits will be a PITA to change back and forth between gauges.I ordered parts directly from BPI and or MEC cheaper the Bilozir.There is also Sporteque out of Quebec. I have 4 different MEC 600's in various gauges.
 
Alex McKr said:
huntingfish: Go to the Bilozir Fine Guns site, for MEC conversion kit pricing. Will be approx. $200. Plus tax. This may help decide which route to take.

Cosmic likely meant that when reloading shotshells, a person needs to stick strictly to the published load data. Little or no variation in components or powder charges, etc., is allowed. Unlike working up loads for metallic cartridges.

Al
Click to expand...

Ah ok, so there are no "working up a load". It's the recipe or nothing.
 
Yes, OP - kinda like I posted in Post #3 on this thread and what you will read in the Lyman book. Some shot shell cartridges are set by SAAMI at like 13,000 psi MAP - so that is the strength a lot of gun makers design for - their design will take that pressure level forever - but not 15,000 psi - that went over "the line" - and as a home guy you will have no clue if your substitution of wad did that, or the hull that you used, or the primer brand, etc. Some "old guy" or "Internet guy" will tell you is all a bunch of hogwash - to swap and interchange components as you wish - has "worked for years" for them - until it doesn't ... Up to you.
 
Potashminer said:
Yes, OP - kinda like I posted in Post #3 on this thread and what you will read in the Lyman book. Some shot shell cartridges are set by SAAMI at like 13,000 psi MAP - so that is the strength a lot of gun makers design for - their design will take that pressure level forever - but not 15,000 psi - that went over "the line" - and as a home guy you will have no clue if your substitution of wad did that, or the hull that you used, or the primer brand, etc. Some "old guy" or "Internet guy" will tell you is all a bunch of hogwash - to swap and interchange components as you wish - has "worked for years" for them - until it doesn't ... Up to you.
Click to expand...

Joke is it is not us old guys that would say that. I have NEVER reloaded anything in 55 years not printed in proven manuals and tested as did any of my friends
No it is the young guys today that think they can do this stuff and get away with it from what I have seen reading posts here guys that have never even loaded 500 rounds yet and think they know something about reloading shotgun
Cheers
 
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