Remington 700 CP .308 Win Bolt Action Pistol 12.5 Threaded Barrel Non-restricted ???
- Thread starter Camp Cook
- Start date
It's illegal to cut any barrel below 18.5" in Canada, you'd have to get a whole new barrel made to replace it.
I was just thinking of this example my Ruger American Ranch in 450 Bushmaster has a 16.25" barrel this is a restricted class barrel as explained to me by the CFC a barrel manufactured shorter than 18" is classed as restricted and can be shortened to any length as long as the overall length of the non-restricted firearm is still over 26".
Remember Dlask Arms has a non-restricted 12 gauge 8.5" barreled Rem 870 that is longer than 26" when a butt stock is installed.
Another example would be a $600 - $700 Howa 1500 mini action 10 round detachable mag system in 300 Blackout they are available with 16.25" barrels it would be perfectly legal to shorten this barrel yes IRUNGUNS has these in stock.
I just measured my Ruger American Ranch in 450 Bushmaster with the 16.25" barrel it is appr 36" OAL I could easily - legally whack 5" off that barrel and still have a 31" OAL rifle or leave the barrel this length and put it into a MDT LSS chassis with their folding stock adapter.
Why is it I have never thought about this before?
My experience with shooting a 12.5" and 22" T/C Contender barrels in 45-70 I only had a 100' per second loss of velocity in the 12.5" barrel from the 22" when loaded with 325gr FTX and H322 powder.
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You can have a barrel shorter than 18.5" but it has to be "manufactured" at that length so you can't shorten a pre existing barrel it's really silly.
Criminal Code states that a prohibited firearm is:
a handgun with a barrel length of 105 mm (4.1 inches) or less;
a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 25 or 32 calibre ammunition;
a rifle or shotgun that has been altered to make it less than 660 mm (26 inches) in overall length;
a rifle or shotgun that has been altered to make the barrel length less than 457 mm (18 inches) where the overall firearm length is 660 mm (26 inches) or more;
an automatic firearm and a converted automatic firearm
any firearm prescribed as prohibited.
Shorter factory barrels are legal but cutting any factory barrel to below 18" renders it prohibited.
a handgun with a barrel length of 105 mm (4.1 inches) or less;
a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 25 or 32 calibre ammunition;
a rifle or shotgun that has been altered to make it less than 660 mm (26 inches) in overall length;
a rifle or shotgun that has been altered to make the barrel length less than 457 mm (18 inches) where the overall firearm length is 660 mm (26 inches) or more;
an automatic firearm and a converted automatic firearm
any firearm prescribed as prohibited.
Shorter factory barrels are legal but cutting any factory barrel to below 18" renders it prohibited.
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
It could be in trouble if the manufacturer keeps calling it a handgun. However, as Uisge points out, this is the exact situation of the Mares Leg. Pistol in the US, rifle in Canada.
If consistent, the RCMP should determine that bolt action necessarily requires two handed operation, like the lever, and therefore this is a rifle. Not being a Semi-Auto, this should be Non-restricted, regardless of barrel or overall length.
They could just as easily determine it is a variant or modified version of any of the bolt action rifles on the prohibited list.
The RCMP SFSS are anything but consistent.
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
Its illegal to cut down a RIFLE or SHOTGUN barrel to below that distance WHILE it is installed on a gun, UNLESS you are a licensed firearms manufacturer.
Further, it remains an open question whether or not removing a factory barrel and installing a shorter OEM barrel would save you as the court could easily determine that barrel substitution falls within "a firearm that is adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted,
(i) is less than 660 mm in length, or
(ii) is 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length,
The legislative intent is to prevent people from creating their own short firearms. Its an easy argument to make that swapping barrels that in the end has the same result is within the legislative intent of what the criminal code meant to prohibit.
Certainly you can do it. The act of manufacturing a prohibited firearm is not an illegal (except for full making a full auto). The barrel itself would not be illegal either, Unless it was a handgun barrel shortened to under 105mm.
However if that barrel was on a rifle or a shotgun the firearm would then be classed as prohibited, possession of which would be illegal without the appropriate license and registration certificate.
If you have an NR firearm with a barrel less than 18" and your shorten it yourself, then the firearm becomes a prohib. That is clear as day, no debate.
If you have an NR mares leg, which has an OAL of 24", and you change the stock or barrel to make it LONGER, such that the OAL is now 25", then the RCMP SFSS believes that such a firearm will become prohibited, because it has been modified, and has an OAL under 26" or a barrel under 18". Its stupid, but then so is the RCMP SFSS.
Poorly written laws can only possibly yield poor interpretations.
There are no OAL requirements for NR firearms. NR firearms are the default of what is left over if a firearm escaped the prohibited or restricted definitions. It is the RESTRICTED class of firearms which captures firearms with telescoping stocks, and it is the PROHIBITED class which includes firearms which have been sawed off or otherwise to below minimum length.
Rossi very much markets the Ranch Hand as pistol in the united states, in order to avoid Federal Laws for Short Barrelled Rifles.
It is not the stock that makes the RCMP deem the Ranch Hand a rifle, but the ACTION. Being a Lever, the RCMP are of the mind that Lever Actions are very much an action requiring two handed operation, and therefore do not meet the definition of handgun. A bolt action gun should logically be given the same treatment.
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
If you are going to invoke the code, then quote the criminal code, not the RCMP website or whatever resource this might be from.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/FullText.html
The RCMP website attempts to summarize the code, but in doing so makes MANY legal errors that could quickly land a gun owner in trouble. Avoid that garbage at all costs.
rifleman762
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
I have a 14" 308 barrel for my Savage model 10. It's great fun! I shoot 150gr bullets using IMR 4198. The Lyman manual lists IMR 4198 for reduced loads under cast bullets so it's safe to use for that.
This Remington could be a great factory-built carbine option if it really comes in as NR
.
This Remington could be a great factory-built carbine option if it really comes in as NR
.
Where I see it as being a super bush gun...
This is by far my favorite bush gun = 27.5" OAL 14" barreled T/C Contender carbine chambered in 338JDJ #2 loaded with 180gr Accubonds @ 2500fps it is a 300 yard capable moose combo with my 200gr SST @ 2350fps loads it is so accurate I can shoot the heads off grouse @ 80 yards.
The 180gr Accubond loads are more powerful - faster than 150gr loads would be from the Rem 700 CP in 308 Win.
I also have 14" barrels in 45 Colt and 375JDJ and looking at ordering a 14" 309JDJ barrel in the next couple of weeks thru Prophet River.
This is by far my favorite bush gun = 27.5" OAL 14" barreled T/C Contender carbine chambered in 338JDJ #2 loaded with 180gr Accubonds @ 2500fps it is a 300 yard capable moose combo with my 200gr SST @ 2350fps loads it is so accurate I can shoot the heads off grouse @ 80 yards.
The 180gr Accubond loads are more powerful - faster than 150gr loads would be from the Rem 700 CP in 308 Win.
I also have 14" barrels in 45 Colt and 375JDJ and looking at ordering a 14" 309JDJ barrel in the next couple of weeks thru Prophet River.
Where I see it as being a super bush gun...
This is by far my favorite bush gun = 27.5" OAL 14" barreled T/C Contender carbine chambered in 338JDJ #2 loaded with 180gr Accubonds @ 2500fps it is a 300 yard capable moose combo with my 200gr SST @ 2350fps loads it is so accurate I can shoot the heads off grouse @ 80 yards.
The 180gr Accubond loads are more powerful - faster than 150gr loads would be from the Rem 700 CP in 308 Win.
I also have 14" barrels in 45 Colt and 375JDJ and looking at ordering a 14" 309JDJ barrel in the next couple of weeks thru Prophet River.
Beautiful rifle! What kind of ballistics do you figure the 308 has out of 12.5" barrel. I thought it fell off dramatically when the barrel was shorter than around 20 inches?
