i always get funny looks at the range when i break out my bricks of Thunderbolts,,,they laugh,,call it junk,,the usuall know it all types,,,,BUT when they see me doing groups under an inch with my old Mossberg 144,,,,they usually shut up real fast,,,and put their $1000.00 hi tech modified riffles back in their cases,,,,mostly high dollar 10/22's,,,so much for the CRAP ammo line,,,LOL...usually followed by WTF was that,,,LOL..odd thing ,,,if i use my mini mags,,the groups open up open up to 2 inches,,,i even get better groups with winchester bulk 37 grn HP's,,,maybe the old guns dont like hyper velocity rounds,,,,but my Thunderbolts bricks are positively awsome,,,and as far as it being dirty,,i didn't clean that old mossberg for over 1000 rnds when i was still getting under an inch,,,had to,,the bolts was getting hard to open,,,LOL...