restristed vs non

Well since they wont be in till spring I jumped on a fellow gunutz ar10t I will play at the range with it and in the yard with the cz.. till I get tired of the safe queen then get one of them dang modern hunters. Cheers all, and thanks for the insight been kinda in the dark with 6 kids its hard to get outta the dark..
 
Just a heads up, MH's stay out of stock because they cant get production caught up to pre-orders. If you are serious about getting one, best to get in line at ATRS, or hope to nab one off the ee.

If you wait to long to get in line at ATRS, the spring delivery batch will sell out and then you will have to wait till fall.
 
skinner said:
How does the MH feed in a non factory clip have you found one that works?
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The three modern hunter rifles I played with each fed fairly well from gen 2 pmags and XCR-M pistol mags, two of them had the odd feeding problems and the third one I only put five rounds through it so I'm not sure how reliable that one was.
My franken 16 inch AR-10 build fed more reliably with more types of ammo from more magazines than the MH did and my 16 inch AR-10 was just as accurate while my 24 inch AR-10 was more accurate with the ammo I used. The Modern hunter is probably capable of better accuracy than I have witnessed so far but I have yet to see one print 1 moa groups consistently. They were all finicky with ammo and mags.

onetwentyish said:
First google "clip vs magazine" then rephrase your question! :p
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Lol, edjumicate him good.
 
So they don't cycle ammo very well, and C5 has yet to see a moa group with any consistency but people are paying this kind of money for this rig..?
sounds like a over priced piece of metal to me..i think you can keep the modern hunter sounds like a modern headache to me..
 
They cycle ammo fine, as long as the projectiles are FMJ or Polymer tipped (AMAX) just the same as an AR10, and as long as you feed from a G2 pmag, xcr pistol mag, or the soon to be released ATRS xcr pistol mag.

Very few people have done thorough ammo testing, and even fewer have done any load development. I have recently seen a few loads successfully group much tighter in the MH thread in ATRS' forum then cr5 suggests.
 
To be clear, a base model $3500 MH is the NR equivalent of a factory $1250 DPMS AR10. Because it is an entirely new design, you are paying a premium to get to that NR status. If status doesn't bother you, why are we still talking about the MH? Just go get an AR10 already and shut up! :p
 
Haha I already did....aswell as a cz since its NR also purchased a new 22/45 the other day so I am broke for awhile..lol anyhow I do appreciate your honesty onetwentyish have you used the xcr before? how does it compare to the modern hunter?
Thanks for the info like I said I have a pile of firearms but have just recently got a itch for these types of firearms so I am not that well versed in them. I assure you I am learning that my previous thoughts on how dumb our classification system is were perfectly proper. I cant believe someone hasn't made a mag clip for a BAR and manufactured large clips for target shooting.. I'd buy one for my 338Bar with the boss its a tack driver. Purchased it in 05 took 31 big game animals since with it and I don't hunt bear..I am gonna do a smack down on the yotes this season and thought I would like a ar type of firearm to work em its just to easy with my 22-250 ruger m77v.

thanks again
Cheers
 
onetwentyish said:
They cycle ammo fine, as long as the projectiles are FMJ or Polymer tipped (AMAX) just the same as an AR10, and as long as you feed from a G2 pmag, xcr pistol mag, or the soon to be released ATRS xcr pistol mag.

Very few people have done thorough ammo testing, and even fewer have done any load development. I have recently seen a few loads successfully group much tighter in the MH thread in ATRS' forum then cr5 suggests.
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onetwentyish said:
To be clear, a base model $3500 MH is the NR equivalent of a factory $1250 DPMS AR10. Because it is an entirely new design, you are paying a premium to get to that NR status. If status doesn't bother you, why are we still talking about the MH? Just go get an AR10 already and shut up! :p
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Don't get all defensive just because you paid $5000 for yours. Two of the rifles I shot had issues with the South African bulk FMJ, to me it looked more like a magazine issue with the pistol mags but they would both push the odd round halfway out of the mag then jam and bend the cartridge and crush half of it (bolt was going over the cartridge).

The MH is a beautifully machined rifle and I love how the rear takedown pin is eliminated in the design. If it was a little more reliable and it was about $1000 less I would buy one at about gen 3 once they've worked out a couple of the small issues.

So all you've seen is pictures of good groups? Have you even shot yours yet? What are you getting for groups?
You say they are reliable with FMJ and polymer tip bullets? Your rifle is one that I've put the most rounds through (with previous owner) and it was more reliable with FMJ and polymer tip bullets but it still had the odd problem with them. We tried 9 different types of factory ammo and we put a few hundred rounds through voodoo over a couple days.

You're right, it's basically a $1200 DPMS AR-10 but with some very nice machining of their billet upper/lower and an expensive barrel, trigger and forend.
My AR-10 build was billet upper/lower with Rainier barrel and top end everything and it was around $3000 retail. It fed from any magazine and never once had a feeding issue with FMJ or polymer tip bullets and printed groups just as tight as the MH.
If the MH top model like voodoo was around $4000 instead of $5000 I would consider it a fair price including the NR tax but $5000+ is too much for what you're getting.

I would love to own one but not at that price. It's not that I couldn't afford one it's that I don't think it's worth what they're charging for a rifle I've seen the performance of first hand.
I would really like to spend some time with one and do some load development for it and see what it's really capable of. I'm guessing 3/4 moa would be possible with the odd fluke group doing slightly better.

Don't get me wrong guys, I'm nit-picking here, it's a beautiful rifle and it's extremely well made but for $4000-$5000 I expect a little more.
Rick and his crew at ATRS have done a great job bringing us another option in the NR category, I just think it needed a little more testing with different mags and ammo before they released it. Only running FGMM and their tailored handloads is one thing but a lot of guys are going to buy these and feed them cheap ammo and it should be more reliable with that stuff as well.
 
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If you want AR10 for looks and are hoping to find one in NR status get a ruger precision rifle it's a bolt gun but NR and takes most AR accessories, if you want a NR semi Auto in 308, Keltec RFB, Modern Hunter, XCR and I believe there are few others but as some have said you will pay a lot more to have that NR status, someday soon I hope to save up for either a modern hunter or varminter but I'm not going to complain about price because they are trying to get NR semi auto's into the market and it's going to take time before we see prices come down.
 
Thank you very much for the info on these types of firearms I have never really been into blk/grn rifles more pistols I feel like the
I feel the MH is over priced as well from what I hear about on paper, and the feeding issues. Like cr5 I would be interested if it was 1000 cheaper (who wouldn't) and gen 2-3.
Willybuch I really got my heart set on a semi, what do you like the 223 cal for a NR gun.
Thanks again for your knowledge and time
 
NR .223...the afore mentioned XCR-L, HK SL-8 ( very accurate for a semi auto rifle), Tavor ( bullpup), Kel-Tec Su-16 ( cheapest of the lot), T97 Norinco ( pretty cheap too!), NR ACR ( pricey also).
KelTec has the RDB but not here yet. Beretta ARX-160(?) but not here yet too.
 
If you're going to consider a NR 223 semi then as Still Alive mentioned the SL8-4 is a great rifle if you want accuracy, I've owned two of them and both would shoot 1 moa with the right ammo. My second one had the Hera Arms gen 2 lower and it was a lot more ergonomic with it. The rifle is still muzzle heavy but that's the price you pay for the Lothar Walther match barrel.
I wasn't overly impressed with the Tavor, it's a well built rifle but other than the compact platform it didn't really do anything for me. I sold it after a couple months.
The SU-16 is a decent rifle but the one I spent some time with was not accurate at all, very similar to the barn door accuracy of the mini-14 I used to own. This is kinda strange though as most reports are that it is decently accurate.
T-97 is a disposable rifle as far as I am concerned and for a rifle with no warranty and no parts support I think it should be priced around the same as an M305 or Norinco AR. Spending $900 on a T-97 then another $400 for the FTU just seems dumb to me.
Non restricted ACR is one of my favorite rifles. Mine will shoot sub moa with handloads in my custom made 300 Blackout conversion. I still haven't put enough time into my 223 conversion to see just how well it will shoot but I'm sure it will be moa or better once I do some load development for it.
Another great NR 223 is the Armalite AR-180B-2, it's about the same as a Tavor or XCR-L in the accuracy department but is much lighter. They are no longer in production but you can find them used on the EE from time to time for around $1200-$1400 which I feel is pretty fair considering what you're getting compared to the prices of the competition.
The XCR-L is getting better with every revision but it still has the craptastic barrel retention system that is a major contributor to it's less than stellar accuracy. Some will claim it will do 1 moa but I'm still waiting for someone to post a legitimate picture of a target than doesn't have a flyer or doesn't have 15 bullet holes in it with five circled as a group.
If you can afford one the Swiss Arms Classic Green or Black Special are nicely built rifles. I enjoyed the one I had but they have a nasty POI shift if you shoot off the bipod then shoot it supported by the magazine.
There is also the Benelli MR-1 which seems to get decent reviews but I've never shot one so I can't really comment on them.
There is also the Famme SG 540 which is basically an older model of the Swiss Arms black special but made in Chile. I've only read reports about them and they sound like they are pretty decent other than the price tag and the cost of extra mags.

Both the Swiss Arms and the HK use a proprietary magazine which is a bit of a pain in the arse but they both use a magazine that I think is superior to the AR (STANAG) pattern magazine. There is a magazine well replacement available for the HK though if you want to stay with AR mags and the one I had fed fine with it.
 
ice2152 said:
If your looking for a rifle in a nr format that looks ARish expect to pay 2-3x what the restricted rifles are. Even then NR ones I've tried don't have the accuracy or diversity of restricted rifles to make it worth the large sum of money invested. Get your restricted, join a club, jump through the hoops at the start then you can open up what you have access to. I never had a interest in pistols/AR until I got my restricted. Now that is what I shoot the most.
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That being said, what if ar-15's got reclassified non-restricted? Do you think the price of one would triple like all the non-restricted black rifles? Are these NR black rifles even half the rifle the ar is. What makes a heavy bulky RA worth 2400.00 when the ar is four times the rifle in design and accuracy? Gouge cough,cough, gouge
 
slyty said:
That being said, what if ar-15's got reclassified non-restricted? Do you think the price of one would triple like all the non-restricted black rifles? Are these NR black rifles even half the rifle the ar is. What makes a heavy bulky RA worth 2400.00 when the ar is four times the rifle in design and accuracy? Gouge cough,cough, gouge
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Lol, we don't need to worry about the AR becoming non restricted any more. Definitely not going to happen with JT on the throne.

Definitely a gouge on the prices. It's called the non restricted tax. Since we all continue to pay it they will continue to charge it.
Of the options available to us I think the ACR, Tavor and Swiss Arms are the best quality "black" rifles we have access to. Even though the ACR requires an investment to make it non restricted I think it's worth it. I'd like to see the prices a little lower but my ACR is my favorite black rifle and I don't regret spending the money on it.
I agree though that if the AR was non restricted I wouldn't have much use for any of the current non restricted options.
 
cr5 said:
Lol, we don't need to worry about the AR becoming non restricted any more. Definitely not going to happen with JT on the throne.

Definitely a gouge on the prices. It's called the non restricted tax. Since we all continue to pay it they will continue to charge it.
Of the options available to us I think the ACR, Tavor and Swiss Arms are the best quality "black" rifles we have access to. Even though the ACR requires an investment to make it non restricted I think it's worth it. I'd like to see the prices a little lower but my ACR is my favorite black rifle and I don't regret spending the money on it.
I agree though that if the AR was non restricted I wouldn't have much use for any of the current non restricted options.
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I would put then xcr In there too
 
cr5 said:
Sorry, I wouldn't.
The XCR is a decent rifle and is getting better with every new update but it still has a few things to work out before it's in the same league as the ACR, Swiss Arms and Tavor.
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I would have to agree after having owned almost every NR black rifle except the swiss, famae or sl8.

The XCR I had was a .223 keymod light version. It was half the rifle of the ACR that replaced it and made me promptly sell it.
 
I would add the HK SL8 if you either have the Hera Arms gen 2 lower or if you don't mind the thumbhole stock. I've owned 2 of them over the years and It's a great rifle and other than being muzzle heavy there aren't many things to complain about. Super accurate without any modifications needed. I preferred the one I had with the Hera lower but they are comfortable with the original thumbhole stock as well.
 
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