I have some .308 FMJ boat tail lead base bullets. I was wondering if they were inserted into a sized case with a light load, they would be a exposed lead flatpoint very boat tailed bullet. I think they would be great on grouse, the flat point would punch a nice .308 hole, probably not do too much damage to the meat. Do you think they would be acceptable as legal hunting ammunition, they are FMJ with an exposed lead base but the lead would be exposed at the front of the cartridge, just like normal hunting ammunition. It seems like it might work but what do you think , besides why.
Reversing FMJ bullets
- Thread starter BEARMAN
- Start date
I've done this many hundreds of times. But not with light loads, only with standard loads.
Accuracy is about as good as when the bullet is the right way around, but the trajectory is different, as you can imagine.
At around factory velocities the bullet opens quite violently. Both guilding metal and steel jackets are the same in this.
Also, FMJ jackets will separate from the core quite easily. When I was using them on the small coastal blacktail deer, I'd find the jacket inside almost every time. I don't ever recall recovering a core; but the exit wounds were very acceptable.
Accuracy is about as good as when the bullet is the right way around, but the trajectory is different, as you can imagine.
At around factory velocities the bullet opens quite violently. Both guilding metal and steel jackets are the same in this.
Also, FMJ jackets will separate from the core quite easily. When I was using them on the small coastal blacktail deer, I'd find the jacket inside almost every time. I don't ever recall recovering a core; but the exit wounds were very acceptable.
- Location
- Winnipeg,Man.
Here in Man. you cannot even be in possession of FMJ bullets while hunting. But every province is different.
Upside down, they are no longer FMJs they are exposed-lead flat points with very radical boat-tails.
Look at _any_ regular hunting bullet (Except Nosler partitions) if you load them wrong-way up you completely change their function.
Look at _any_ regular hunting bullet (Except Nosler partitions) if you load them wrong-way up you completely change their function.
- Location
- Winnipeg,Man.
Function does not change what it is. Description is what the wardens look at. I really would not want to challange it with them.
How's the warden gonna know it's FMJ, if you don't tell him?If he looks at them all he will see is an exposed lead tip, which in effect makes it a soft point bullet, which is perfectly legal to hunt with.
The only way it could be considered FMJ is if you load it with the jacketed point facing forward.I mean he's not going to pull your bullets to check them , is he?
I agree that turning the bullet around completely changes it's intent.It doesn't matter what the tail end of the bullet looks like as long as the end you're pointing at a game animal isn't FMJ.
Scott
The only way it could be considered FMJ is if you load it with the jacketed point facing forward.I mean he's not going to pull your bullets to check them , is he?
I agree that turning the bullet around completely changes it's intent.It doesn't matter what the tail end of the bullet looks like as long as the end you're pointing at a game animal isn't FMJ.
Scott
shooter910
Regular
- Location
- Prince Edward Island
I would be worried that the jacket would come off the lead and stay in the bbl, with the large lead area .
here on pei we cant hunt any bird game with any type of rifle what so ever no matter what type of lead, maby where you are it is ok I dont know?
here on pei we cant hunt any bird game with any type of rifle what so ever no matter what type of lead, maby where you are it is ok I dont know?
Where would the description come from, in your opinion?
- Location
- Winnipeg,Man.
Should a person really think a Warden does not know what a certain ammo looks like? He can seize the gun with any little suggestion of wonder( I have been asked for a sample of my ammo in the field) and they WILL pull the bullets to verify the caliber etc, if there is cause.. Just because a person has never been checked nor caught does not make it legal. Is it really worth the risk? I love to hunt and the "savings"...are not worth a hunting ban and/or fine. IMO.....
So what your saying is I can turn an Accubond around with the boattail facing out (no expossed lead on that boattail
) and legally hunt game with a Now "FMJ" since the bullet itself is a hunting bullet just upside down...............
bclinehand
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Clearwater B.C.
So what your saying is I can turn an Accubond around with the boattail facing out (no expossed lead on that boattail
I do believe that we should have an "owned" smilie.......BCboy has blown your argument completely out of the water
.223Savage
Member
WWI Use of Reversed Bullets
On a recent edition of the History Channel show "Battlefield Detectives'" the researchers dug up several rounds of .303 ammo with the bullets reversed in the cases. They were quite excited as this confirmed a rumor that soldiers in the trenches did this to penetrate the heavy metal shields that German snipers hid behind. Apparently there was a story amongst British troops that they would get better penetration of the metal shields with the bullet hitting flat end first. They thought that if it did not penetrate then the impact of the bullet would knock some metal (spalling) off the back of the metal plate and injure or blind the German sniper.
They eventually found one of the German metal plates, it was about 15 inches (40cm) square with a little flap in the middle to allow the rifle to poke through and take aim. This metal plate was built into the sandbagged top of the trench and allowed the sniper to aim at the British trenches while remaining under some shelter from counter sniper fire.
This series of shows was very interesting as it showed a group of researchers digging in the WWI battlefields of France and Belgium. It amazed me at the vast amounts of material they recovered including many bodies which they treated with respect and returned to their respective military. Apparently this is a common occurrence there.
On one episode they were able to identify the remains of a German soldier after 90 years by a post card they found tucked in his prayer book. They traced him back to the music school where he had been a student bound for a great career. His remaining family were all wiped out in WWII. It sure put a human face to a tragedy.
On a recent edition of the History Channel show "Battlefield Detectives'" the researchers dug up several rounds of .303 ammo with the bullets reversed in the cases. They were quite excited as this confirmed a rumor that soldiers in the trenches did this to penetrate the heavy metal shields that German snipers hid behind. Apparently there was a story amongst British troops that they would get better penetration of the metal shields with the bullet hitting flat end first. They thought that if it did not penetrate then the impact of the bullet would knock some metal (spalling) off the back of the metal plate and injure or blind the German sniper.
They eventually found one of the German metal plates, it was about 15 inches (40cm) square with a little flap in the middle to allow the rifle to poke through and take aim. This metal plate was built into the sandbagged top of the trench and allowed the sniper to aim at the British trenches while remaining under some shelter from counter sniper fire.
This series of shows was very interesting as it showed a group of researchers digging in the WWI battlefields of France and Belgium. It amazed me at the vast amounts of material they recovered including many bodies which they treated with respect and returned to their respective military. Apparently this is a common occurrence there.
On one episode they were able to identify the remains of a German soldier after 90 years by a post card they found tucked in his prayer book. They traced him back to the music school where he had been a student bound for a great career. His remaining family were all wiped out in WWII. It sure put a human face to a tragedy.
GpRacer, yup, that would work just fine.
In fact I would think that upside-down-FMJs would be excellent .30-30 bullets. The Hirtenberger .308 bullet I'm looking at right now just barely contacts the outside of a large-rifle primer, the centre of the primer is completely untouched.
In fact I would think that upside-down-FMJs would be excellent .30-30 bullets. The Hirtenberger .308 bullet I'm looking at right now just barely contacts the outside of a large-rifle primer, the centre of the primer is completely untouched.
I would have some concerns about all the burning gases being directed to the rifling and up along side the bullet, causing among other things, premature barrel wear. I don't know if this type of testing has been done or what the results would be, but I would just use the right bullet for the job, and not try to induce anyone with less experience to try these "stunts".
Ben , I agree with you about using the right bullet for the job.I was just saying that "if " one were to turn a FMJ with an exposed lead base, it is now a soft point bullet, just as BCboy said if you turned a soft point and had the fully jacketed base exposed, it is no longer a suitable(legal) hunting round.
Scott
Scott
Actually, Ben, the work was done, by Julian Hatcher. He noted that the wear in barrels that fired only flat-based bullets was "different" than the boat-tails, not worse, just different.
Of course his work was with the .30-'06; but I think it's probably applicable.
Of course his work was with the .30-'06; but I think it's probably applicable.
