Review - Vortex Razor HD gen II 4.5-27x56

10-4

The position where i am coming from, i am someone who works hard for my pesos, and a 3700$ scope purchase was not something taken lightly.
After all the good 'murican reviews on this product, i decided to make the jump with vortex.
Then i see your review and am literally pooped, felt like this purchase was the wrong one.
I will have to apologize for the use of the word integrity, don't want to hide behind language barrier, but i am not always typing things like they would sound in french in my head.
I do how ever, believe in the theory of Ford dealer reviewing a Chevy truck, it just takes something away from the review knowing that.
Since i do not know you yet, it leaves me with that impression, people who have known you for years probably know otherwise.

You have a point in saying the unit you have received can possibly be defective.
Happens from all manufacturers, some more than others. I am now left wondering how the issue was resolved with original purchaser, or even if vortex recognized the issue.
My scope gets mounted tomorrow afternoon, i will look at a far object and crank elevation to max after what you experienced, to get this doubt behind me asap. I sure hope now i haven't got a dud myself. If it was the industry standard and they all do that, vortex are paying good money to pump out good reviews.

Hope i didn't open a can of worms here, i was and am, doubting my equipment after i have fully paid for, which is not a cool feeling at that price point.
 
Consumers today want the reviews from others to help with their purchase BUT do they know anything about the experience and/or skill of those doing the reviews?

Do they agree with the reviews because the answer is what they want to hear - both positive or negative?

I test and evaluate alot of shooting stuff every year as it is important for me to keep up with new gear and to have first hand experience when customers ask my advice. My POV has been and always be, does the product to the job and how well does it perform that task. I don't care about brand nor price. Sometimes things work great, sometimes they don't. Some companies improve. some don't.

Price is the balance of "value" - some things simply cost alot to do a job... other times more humble products do a better job.

Evaluate your scope based on what you see from YOUR scope. Stop worrying about what I, he/she, they talk about. If the product does what you want for the price you have invested, then the product is of great value regardless if "cheap or expensive".

If the product has a glitch, get it fixed.... good companies stand behind their product and work to ensure happy customers. They do not say a problem can NEVER occur... they simply support and fix a problem WHEN it does.

I believe that the Vortex scopes I saw and others have commented to me were a glitch in the production process. Given the number of happy end users, Vortex has likely identified and addressed areas of concern in their production process. That is very positive and will help ALL their products going forward.

Odds are, you will be very happy with the scope.

I know I was very impressed initially with the one I reviewed.

Jerry
 
My view is somewhat at variance with Jerry's but hopefully the shooting world is big enough to have more than one opinion on writing reviews so here goes:

When starting to write about something I won't review it if I find out it is broken - I would return it and when repaired or when an opportunity arose to review another one of the same model I would say something like " this is the second Brand A I have had in my hands, the first was defective in that...." I feel that this is a fairer way to comment than to review an obviously broken or mis-assembled piece.

Of course it is easy for me to say this as I am not in the business of selling anything - I don't sell guns, scopes, accessories or anything - but when dealers review products they should understand two things that actually seem quite contradictory: one - their opinions carry a lot of weight in the marketplace and two - there may well be a reasonable apprehension of bias amongst readers. I am not saying that dealers should not review products but that they should be prepared for pushback when they do so.

Jerry, had I been you I wouldn't have written the review you did because the product was clearly defective but you and I have a different approach to these things and I am not saying my way is better than yours - just different. If there are people in our shooting community who think you trashed the product because you are not a dealer for that product then that is their prerogative and because of issues like this I try to write reviews about products I actually own rather than something I only have access to for a short period of time. Honestly, I feel better about saying what I like and don't like when I've actually spent my own money on a product but I recognise that this approach isn't possible for everyone especially with the seemingly endless price rises for good glass.

Finally, maybe we should consider "glitch" to be the new "wonky" :)
 
T, our approach is most certainly different. I approach my reviews 'as a consumer who just spent hard earned cash'. I open the box and use the product as the manf presents. Cherry picking and looking for a "better lot" is fine when you have an endless supply from any manf but that is not how a customer is going to experience the product. And not how they will respond to a product if defective out of the box.

ALL manfs have a responsiblity to offer the product in working condition to the customer. Yes, screw ups happen and the supplier/manf should make it right but it is a screw up never the less.

The scope reviewed passed all of the, then current, QC inspections.. see the inspection card in my review. I am not over reacting nor am I discounting the product. The review took the scope at face value and how a customer (it was a customer's scope) would have experienced it... Yes, he did experience it and was none too pleased.

IF a product that receives a poor review is sent back for repair/replacement and the new/repaired item is sent back to me for review, I will certainly offer a review on the "new" item. I have no interest in bashing a product.. more better... and I was very clear to explain the pros and cons of the item I had in my hands. There was alot to like....

However, does it really help the credibility of the "reviewer" if the item gets 5 stars but consumers get a less then stellar experience? As I said, mine was not the only scope and others have discretely contacted me to say the same.. take that for what you will.

So as a consumer, what do they want from a review?... all is good and rosey or exactly what happened when the box was opened (hopefully, it will be good and rosey)?????

My information, articles and posts are based on my real world experience. I can stand behind what I have written as accurate and not glossed over to please a corporate ear (none are paid reviews, I also purchase or items are purchased and lent to me for review).... or current consumer fashion.

Because of this, I feel that I have built a credibility within the industry allowing some manf to approach me to help with their product development. They may not like what I have to say but the solutions will make their product better against their peers.

For better or worst, I feel that is how I will run my business and how I will service my customers.

YMMV

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
T, our approach is most certainly different. I approach my reviews 'as a consumer who just spent hard earned cash'. I open the box and use the product as the manf presents. Cherry picking and looking for a "better lot" is fine when you have an endless supply from any manf but that is not how a customer is going to experience the product. And not how they will respond to a product if defective out of the box.

ALL manfs have a responsiblity to offer the product in working condition to the customer. Yes, screw ups happen and the supplier/manf should make it right but it is a screw up never the less.

The scope reviewed passed all of the, then current, QC inspections.. see the inspection card in my review. I am not over reacting nor am I discounting the product. The review took the scope at face value and how a customer (it was a customer's scope) would have experienced it... Yes, he did experience it and was none too pleased.

IF a product that receives a poor review is sent back for repair/replacement and the new/repaired item is sent back to me for review, I will certainly offer a review on the "new" item. I have no interest in bashing a product.. more better... and I was very clear to explain the pros and cons of the item I had in my hands. There was alot to like....

However, does it really help the credibility of the "reviewer" if the item gets 5 stars but consumers get a less then stellar experience? As I said, mine was not the only scope and others have discretely contacted me to say the same.. take that for what you will.

So as a consumer, what do they want from a review?... all is good and rosey or exactly what happened when the box was opened (hopefully, it will be good and rosey)?????

My information, articles and posts are based on my real world experience. I can stand behind what I have written as accurate and not glossed over to please a corporate ear (none are paid reviews, I also purchase or items are purchased and lent to me for review).... or current consumer fashion.

Because of this, I feel that I have built a credibility within the industry allowing some manf to approach me to help with their product development. They may not like what I have to say but the solutions will make their product better against their peers.

For better or worst, I feel that is how I will run my business and how I will service my customers.

YMMV

Jerry
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I read your review again. Please tell us all how it was that you were able to deduce that your percieved flaw was a lens grind issue (of all possible things)??
 
Mystic Precision said:
T, our approach is most certainly different. I approach my reviews 'as a consumer who just spent hard earned cash'. I open the box and use the product as the manf presents. Cherry picking and looking for a "better lot" is fine when you have an endless supply from any manf but that is not how a customer is going to experience the product.
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So, hand on heart, you would have written the same review if this had been a product you sell ? You would have gone ahead and trashed a defective product as if you were the consumer rather than gotten ahold of the company rep and said "hey - one of the last batch is broken and I will be sending it back etc etc etc" ??
 


Installed in rings within torque specs and level today in my shop
Only boresighted
With a 25M boresight, and 20moa rail, so far i have 13 mils of elevation available
Will see once truly sighted for 100M

I cannot comment on quality as it's one of my first optics
The only thing i can compare with, is a vortex diamondback HP on my CZ452, which i got last year

Really heavier than expected, feels solid
 
Tomochan said:
So, hand on heart, you would have written the same review if this had been a product you sell ? You would have gone ahead and trashed a defective product as if you were the consumer rather than gotten ahold of the company rep and said "hey - one of the last batch is broken and I will be sending it back etc etc etc" ??
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You will need to do alot of digging cause this was discussed many years back... Sightron came out with the then new SIII scope line (YEAH!!!!). Lots of good and widely acclaimed.

Then they came out with 3 fixed powered scopes with lots of elevation travel. Back then, high travel scopes were the limited to fixed powered scopes (Leupy 16X and B&L 10X being other examples). I grabbed them as soon as they were available. The 16 and 20X were great optically in the central part of the travel but degraded rapidly at either end of travel. 10X didn't show the degradation as bad likely due to the lower mag. pretty pointless to have a high travel scope when you can't see your LR target. I voiced that concern with those discussing LR scopes on forums and with customers. I voiced concerns to Sightron.

The scopes were pulled shortly and a replacement has not been made. The lone survivor, the SIII10X continues to have a very small following. Given all the excellent high mag variables, with similar scope travel, no idea why this scope still hangs around. It isn't that cheap either.

over the years, I have made comment about small niggles I have with the SIII scopes both on forums and to Sightron - the gold coloured markings do not work well with aging eyes. Those elfish sized allen bolts work fine to hold the scope caps in place but the allen key is not a common part in any hardware store so don't loose them. These are not flaws that stop the scope from working... they are just features I feel can be improved on... All of the new gen Sightron scopes have white markings. maybe the SIII lineup with get a refresh and incorporate many of the features I and other shooters have been yapping at Sightron to change????

Over the last few years, I have been very vocal about Sightrons very slow reaction to improve and update their products to keep up with current trends. In F class, they started with a boom and simply have not kept up with features we want. Still excellent scopes but there are things that can be improved upon. I requested a custom shop scope which was a direct response to the NF comp (first gen). I chatted directly with the "boss" - build this scope, improve a few things but BUILD THIS SCOPE... nada

The scope is available as a custom sku product and no where does Sightron list it in their scope offerings. It is a topic of conversation at each year. With Vortex and NF offerings, it is time to make some leap frog upgrades if Sightron wants to stay in that game. Again, not a problem with the product... a problem with innovation.

Then my more recent discussions wrt to the booming PRS market. It has been a few years and alot of conversations urging some product to suit this game. Hopefully, things are changing at HQ cause the last few conversations were product centric with specs closer to what is wanted.

When I get enquiries, I am always trying to blend need with product and many times, the product customers "want", may have quirks they do not need. There are a lot of Sightron products I have steered my customers away from. They all worked just fine but the features were not ideal or 'modern'... happily most of these have been phased out over the last 2 years.

The question with the Vortex was one of QC... not design, nor features. I really like the parameters of this scope (minus the weight). My excitement to review was in preparation to add the product to my offerings... there is nothing in my offerings that compete directly with the Vortex Gen 2 Razor... it would have made a great fit in a rapidly growing market. If you think all I want to do is flog stuff, why not offer the stuff shooters are asking for?

Vortex is by far, the most innovative and dynamic scope brand in NA. They have gone through a lot of teething pains with warranty repairs being at the top of the list. But they continue to create products that are current and actually listen to what the shooting community is asking for. Very quick to go from concept to the shelf and they seem to be really upping their game wrt to quality.

They are the scope company to watch....

Jerry
 
Tomochan said:
Here is the link again (direct from Vortex's webpage) : https://www.vortexcanada.net/produc...flescope-with-ebr-2c-reticle-10-mrad-turrets/

I usually give MAP (or MSRP) rather than street price because the latter often varies so much but the $3,449 is one I've seen BUT, as you point out, they don't have any.
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I just got one on amazon yesterday for $2899+$27.99 shipping. Dont even have a gun to put it on. Might of did that backwards any suggestions for what to put the scope on?
 
Amazon carries the 4.5-27x56 for $3749.98 plus $23.93 shipping so I doubt Jeff44 got the scope for $2899 + $27.99 shipping but if he did then that is one spectacular deal.

As for rifle - something bulky as these Razors look pretty stupid on factory stocked guns :)
 
Tomochan said:
Amazon carries the 4.5-27x56 for $3749.98 plus $23.93 shipping so I doubt Jeff44 got the scope for $2899 + $27.99 shipping but if he did then that is one spectacular deal.

As for rifle - something bulky as these Razors look pretty stupid on factory stocked guns :)
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That sounds more like what I paid ;) Mine is on a CDX-33, so no worries there, LOL!
 
I agree my 10TR looks unbalanced, my MDT ESS will help bulk it out.
Sitting as it is, people at the range might think I'm overcompensating for something else!
 
If sold by Amazon.ca you lucked out.
If sold by new seller keep your fingers crossed. I had killer deals lately that was shortly aborted by Amazon.

NVM: you said "$2899+$27.99 shipping". Amazon.ca would be free shipping. Unless you got tracking # or established seller be prepare for Amazon cancellation; seen too many lately.
Jeff44 said:
CDN, should arrive between the 28th and 7th. said it shipped today
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