P0WERWAGON
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i like my HP. gonna order another tomorrow
Reviews on Norinco 870 14" shotguns
- Thread starter Frontier Firearms
- Start date
I was not very clear last post and jumped back and forth between the two failures 
To clarify things these are two different failures, the failures aren't caused or prevented by the anti jam kit, the kit makes it a lot easier to clear the jam if it happens.
The first jam is commonly called the Remington Jam; it starts with the action closed and occurs when a round has not fully held by the magazine retainer in the magazine and slips back under the carrier with the action closed. The anti jam kit has the flexitabs and keeps the round from slipping back too far as shown in the photo. Remedy on the new guns is to open the action sharply. On the older models without the flexitabs it would wedge far back against the bolt and require a lot of force to clear. Remedy was to force the action open by jamming buttstock down against a solid object to assist opening action (With ejection port facing away from you). It can be a real bear to clear.
The second failure is the Double Feed and occurs when two rounds are released from the magazine instead of one when the action is cycled open. It looks like this (It's harder to clear when the front round gets put into the gun backward...yes it has happened
- not to me though. I even know someone who stuffed his Bic lighter into the mag when he grabbed his ammo from a pocket)
The corrective action is "Push, Pinch, Pull" with practice it is about 5-6 seconds.
Sorry for the confusion.
To clarify things these are two different failures, the failures aren't caused or prevented by the anti jam kit, the kit makes it a lot easier to clear the jam if it happens. The first jam is commonly called the Remington Jam; it starts with the action closed and occurs when a round has not fully held by the magazine retainer in the magazine and slips back under the carrier with the action closed. The anti jam kit has the flexitabs and keeps the round from slipping back too far as shown in the photo. Remedy on the new guns is to open the action sharply. On the older models without the flexitabs it would wedge far back against the bolt and require a lot of force to clear. Remedy was to force the action open by jamming buttstock down against a solid object to assist opening action (With ejection port facing away from you). It can be a real bear to clear.
The second failure is the Double Feed and occurs when two rounds are released from the magazine instead of one when the action is cycled open. It looks like this (It's harder to clear when the front round gets put into the gun backward...yes it has happened
- not to me though. I even know someone who stuffed his Bic lighter into the mag when he grabbed his ammo from a pocket)The corrective action is "Push, Pinch, Pull" with practice it is about 5-6 seconds.
Sorry for the confusion.
Here is a list of differences between standard Express and Police model that I lifted from another site. How about some comments on how the Norinco stands up to this same list? I believe some of these 'enhancements' are already included, aren't they?
------------------------- begin quote -------
To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.
• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.
• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.
• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.
• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.
• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.
• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.
• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.
• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.
• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.
• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.
• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.
• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.
• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.
• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.
• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.
------------------------- begin quote -------
To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.
• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.
• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.
• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.
• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.
• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.
• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.
• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.
• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.
• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.
• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.
• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.
• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.
• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.
• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.
• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.
There is no doubt the Police model is superior to the Express and the Norinco in several respects. That's why I own one.
The J-lock can be swapped out, the Express HD with the magazine tube extension does not have the plastic magazine spring retention system.
On my Police I swapped out the heavier sear spring in my Police because it made the trigger pull around 10 lbs.
MIM parts versus bar stock is often an interesting discussion. But break either on a Remington and replacements are easy to find. Do the Remington factory parts drop into a Norinco?
The Express, Police and Wingmaster all have the flex-tab and Ike's excellent explanation provides the reasons why it's a very good thing to have.
The J-lock can be swapped out, the Express HD with the magazine tube extension does not have the plastic magazine spring retention system.
On my Police I swapped out the heavier sear spring in my Police because it made the trigger pull around 10 lbs.
MIM parts versus bar stock is often an interesting discussion. But break either on a Remington and replacements are easy to find. Do the Remington factory parts drop into a Norinco?
The Express, Police and Wingmaster all have the flex-tab and Ike's excellent explanation provides the reasons why it's a very good thing to have.
Win/64 said:
That would apply to many of the high end 1911 manufacturers as well I assume?
Once a patent expires, then anyone is free to copy the product.
Sometimes even American companies copy superior designs.
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A799392
IchBinEinSniper
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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I bought one in '05. I really liked it. It functioned well, although you had to be careful not to "short stroke" it. I put a Hogue 12" LOP overmolded stock set on it, then later had it painted with Krylon's OD green paint. I sold it to buy a strider hatchet. I'd buy another without hesitiation.
That's a good looking shotgun...
