Rimfire IPSC style?

[TRaTSeRiF]

There is nothing wrong with "rimfire action pistol", "rimfire action rifle" or any variations of this, and if the people organizing these matches want to adopt selected rules or qualifications from IPSC, USPDA, IDPA, SASS, XYZ, ABC, or other disciplines that is fine with me.

But please don't refer to it as "IPSC" or even "IPSC style", come up with a new name.

But it already is a legitimate IPSC discipline, officially recognized by the organization. Even with that being said, I'll do you a solid and stop referring to it as such as soon as IPSC drops the "P" from its acronym as there's very little practical about our game

 

[PeterPan]

Actually, most of the world is like that.. Add to that the fact that there was a MASSIVE exodus of IPSC long gun shooters once we got OUR stupid mag capacity laws. We're at a point where people who used to shoot IPSC matches with long guns are either seniors/super-seniors or not doing IPSC at all.. Most of those that are left have sold their AR's and invested in handguns. That's the biggest inertial mass that needs to be overcome - being a handgun-only club. Other than that, there is no real reason why we can't have some fun with rimfire rifles from time to time.

Somehow, I have not noticed this tendency with pistols, in 90's we could use full cap mags for both. There is 10 round limit in Canada, and we have more members than ever shooting IPSC. Even in US, rifle matches are not as popular as pistols, and this is for a reason. Rifle match needs bigger range and more logistics, pistol is easier to run.

 

[PeterPan]

Air gun is also legitimate and have never seen even one match shot with air pistols

 

[TRaTSeRiF]

Somehow, I have not noticed this tendency with pistols, in 90's we could use full cap mags for both. There is 10 round limit in Canada, and we have more members than ever shooting IPSC. Even in US, rifle matches are not as popular as pistols, and this is for a reason. Rifle match needs bigger range and more logistics, pistol is easier to run.

LAR/Beowulf mags are a very new development on our scene. Pistols having double the capacity definitely had a MAJOR advantage for decades. That's why rifle matches are only making a comeback now. IPSC has been slow to adopt them, so I ended up shooting more matches sanctioned by other bodies and/or outlaw matches than actual IPSC matches this year (and the only IPSC matches I've shot were with long guns lol)

Rimfire autoloading rifles aren't about long range accuracy. They're only good out to 100yds and change. You can literally run a match on handgun stages, even though it's better to pull back 10-20yds if possible. That's why I think it's easier to organize a rimfire rifle match in Ontario than a centerfire rifle match. More venues.

 

[crash277]

I know my accountant (aka the wife) would have no problem with me shooting .22 "PIPSC" pretend IPSC... since on a good day its $3.50 a mag change in the .40.

 

[baird]

Isn't IPSC getting watered down enough without trying to put 22 in the mix. Lets keep what we have and use the guns we are permitted, remember what DVC statnds for. You want to shoot 22 try bullseye.

 

[Tongarirohiker]

I find the following obstacles to the rimfire action shooting adoption in Canada:
-Most IPSC guys in Canada are handgun only. You can only get a black badge shooting a centerfire handgun and most members focus on that. It's hard enough getting a centerfire rifle match going at most clubs (the only exceptions in the last half-decade were EESA and Peterborough). The handgunners are a majority in the region and all clubs. I recently converted one to play with long guns, but he used to shoot AR's when we didn't have stupid mag capacity laws
-We are snobs. ".22LR is for toys" attitude is prevalent in Canada and it's hard working against the snobism
-The current .22LR shortage lol

The best way to go about it is to go AROUND IPSC. The club rep won't let you shoot it? Make alternative arrangements with the club and do it on the outlaw basis. Accept any holster cert, but run it based on IPSC rules. People WILL come out to play and generate buzz. The only way to make it happen is through a combination of infiltration of new members and conversion of existing members until a critical mass is reached. Once enough people are shooting those matches, we can work on getting some sanctioned matches going.

FWIW, there was HUGE interest in downrange rimfire shooting at my club. This week we held a limited test event (busting some clays with .22's) and everybody had a blast. It will probably become a regular thing - clays/steel targets with .22's, downrange.

^ This!

If you already shoot IPSC in your area, maybe bring it up with some of the locals to see if you can get a fun match together. Run a stage with your centerfire pistol, then re-run the stage using rimfire and see if folks can beat their previous centerfire time. Theoretically they should...however I think a lot of folks will be surprised at how hard it can be. I don't think the OP is looking to change IPSC. They're looking for a way to have fun with a .22 outside of bullseye shooting.

I don't get the hate-on/snobbery around rimfire...but those guys are probably waist deep in the 9mm/.40/.45 debate too.

 

[StoneHorse]

I don't think the OP is looking to change IPSC. They're looking for a way to have fun with a .22 outside of bullseye shooting.....
I don't get the hate-on/snobbery around rimfire...but those guys are probably waist deep in the 9mm/.40/.45 debate too.

Another facet that could attract new people to the shooting sports. Maybe they will 'graduate' to center fire later........

 

[TRaTSeRiF]

Isn't IPSC getting watered down enough without trying to put 22 in the mix. Lets keep what we have and use the guns we are permitted, remember what DVC statnds for. You want to shoot 22 try bullseye.

Watered down from what? It's not like the P in the acronym really stands for something... You want "practical"? Go to Academi. IPSC is a game, plain and simple. In any case, this particular game has already made provisions for .22LR so it's not like we are introducing a radical new concept. It's already there. There is an official IPSC rulebook for it. It exists! It's alive! It's trigger time and fun. If you don't like it, fine... But don't tell me what I can and cannot do with my guns (within the confines of the law, of course). That's Wendy's and Justin's job

If you already shoot IPSC in your area, maybe bring it up with some of the locals to see if you can get a fun match together. Run a stage with your centerfire pistol, then re-run the stage using rimfire and see if folks can beat their previous centerfire time. Theoretically they should...however I think a lot of folks will be surprised at how hard it can be.

Lol, not happening at my club. Our IPSC director/club rep was very clear about not allowing us to shoot stages with rimfire rifles. With that being said, I'll look into running something anyway. The first obstacle will be securing the facilities on a relatively short notice, while I'm still in Canada. The second obstacle will be securing the props and the electronics. At least the bricks are easy. Finally, I'll need to secure enough qualified volunteers to keep the match safe and fun. We'll see once I hear about the facilities.

 

[Tongarirohiker]

Lol, not happening at my club. Our IPSC director/club rep was very clear about not allowing us to shoot stages with rimfire rifles. With that being said, I'll look into running something anyway. The first obstacle will be securing the facilities on a relatively short notice, while I'm still in Canada. The second obstacle will be securing the props and the electronics. At least the bricks are easy. Finally, I'll need to secure enough qualified volunteers to keep the match safe and fun. We'll see once I hear about the facilities.

I was speaking in the context of a rimfire pistol such as a GSG 1911, which may be an easier sell.

 

[TRaTSeRiF]

I was speaking in the context of a rimfire pistol such as a GSG 1911, which may be an easier sell.

Might be, but only along the lines of "I'll leave the props and you put them away whenever you're done". That's how we got to run centerfire rifle practices in the first place (thank you euxx ). I don't own a rimfire pistol, but will raise the possibility on the club forum. The way our club operates makes the logistics of organizing rimfire practices in any different way very challenging (prime time is taken up by various leagues, and if there are shooters downrange during the off-hours and someone shows up to shoot from the ports, the downrange shooters have to clean up and leave ASAP).

Edit: Just got the word that I can't secure the venue I had in mind on such short notice. I'll try to poke a few more bushes but the odds are long.

 

[QuickDraw16]

What does it take to organize a match?

 

[Onagoth]

I for one don't think it's in our best interest to help convince our CFO that we don't need centre fire pistols/rifles to participate in IPSC/Action shooting.

My .02

Sadly, this is a very real concern in Ontario.

 

[Jamie]

its time we tell the CFO to f off

 

[crash277]

its time we tell the CFO to f off

tried that. keep getting "good and sufficient reason" as a reply. Including a mailed letter (during email conversations) stating that the letter was not a refusal to issue a refusal.... Ontario is trying my patience.

 

[TRaTSeRiF]

What does it take to organize a match?

Disclaimer: I don't have experience in running or even ROing a match, so I was gonna try to do it anyway. I would have had some friends' experience to draw on as I know enough people who have RO'd and even organized their own matches in the past, but it would have still been a steep learning curve..

1) You need a venue - time scheduled at the club [this turned out to be my biggest snag - member of one of the biggest clubs in Canada but with only one range, impossible to get a time-slot on short notice]
2) You need volunteers - Ideally you wanna be able to run 2 stages at a time, so that means a bare minimum of 4 people manning the CoF assuming they won't take any breaks and will stay there all day (lol), plus some alternates. Also need some admin staff handling registration/scoring and help with setup and teardown/cleanup
3) You need props and other equipment - Target stands, tables (both safety and loading), targets, barricades, staplers, patch guns....
4) You need electronic junk - Timers, devices to be used for scoring

These are just the basics and not an exhaustive list.

 

[crash277]

Disclaimer: I don't have experience in running or even ROing a match, so I was gonna try to do it anyway. I would have had some friends' experience to draw on as I know enough people who have RO'd and even organized their own matches in the past, but it would have still been a steep learning curve..

1) You need a venue - time scheduled at the club [this turned out to be my biggest snag - member of one of the biggest clubs in Canada but with only one range, impossible to get a time-slot on short notice]
2) You need volunteers - Ideally you wanna be able to run 2 stages at a time, so that means a bare minimum of 4 people manning the CoF assuming they won't take any breaks and will stay there all day (lol), plus some alternates. Also need some admin staff handling registration/scoring and help with setup and teardown/cleanup
3) You need props and other equipment - Target stands, tables (both safety and loading), targets, barricades, staplers, patch guns....
4) You need electronic junk - Timers, devices to be used for scoring

These are just the basics and not an exhaustive list.

is the club owned by the members or private club? the reason i ask is equipment. If its owned by the members are all members allowed to use it? (props, electronics, etc)

 

[baird]

If the referal to bullseye was taken as to what to use your 22 for that wasn't my intention. In the 15+ yrs i have been involved with IPSC i have not heard of any interest to run 22 matches, yes people practice with them.

 

[dinsdale]

IIRC the IDPA guys at EOSC, just east of Ottawa, occasionally run an IDPA like .22lr rifle match for rifles.

 

[TRaTSeRiF]

is the club owned by the members or private club? the reason i ask is equipment. If its owned by the members are all members allowed to use it? (props, electronics, etc)

It's owned by the members but the IPSC props are administered by the IPSC section. Whether I can secure them or not doesn't matter as I can't secure the club itself. Even if there was a problem with securing the club property props, I would have been able to secure them from a couple of other clubs.

If the referal to bullseye was taken as to what to use your 22 for that wasn't my intention. In the 15+ yrs i have been involved with IPSC i have not heard of any interest to run 22 matches, yes people practice with them.

Understood and I apologize for my strong reaction to the original post. I am not saying that rimfire matches will displace centerfire matches, but I see a niche for them at indoor clubs, especially the ones that only allow pistol calibers. Even the ones that allow rifle calibers don't have enough distance to fully test the ability of a centerfire rifle (other than SKS lol). Now, one option would be going through the expense of getting a pistol caliber upper and shooting more expensive ammo, but generally speaking, everybody and their grandmother owns a rimfire autoloader with irons or a cheap dot. In winter time, matches can only be comfortably held in indoor venues (even though I'd like to play a Galt winter match lol), so that increases the potential demand for rimfire matches.