Ross Rifle myths and realities
- Thread starter TheIndifferent1
- Start date
As a Canadian Ranger I have put a lot of .303 British ammo through lee enfields. Often during rapid fire exercises the oil in the hanguards starts to boil and the rifle will burn your hands if you touch the action.
Any rifle regardless of manufacture or make will do this if you put enough ammunition through it. I have yet to have a rifle get so hot that the bolt is too hot to touch though, but the receiver - Oh yeah hot hot hot.
As for the Ross I see no reason why they would be any different.
Any rifle regardless of manufacture or make will do this if you put enough ammunition through it. I have yet to have a rifle get so hot that the bolt is too hot to touch though, but the receiver - Oh yeah hot hot hot.
As for the Ross I see no reason why they would be any different.
Ha, I was at the rifle range a couple of years ago, and another shooter had a really minty SMLE he'd just gotten...after about 20 rounds the cosmolene was just a'runnin out of the wood, all over the rifle, a very slimy mess...
That's happened to me before too - the oil oozing out of the rifle when firing.
I am taking two courses this year with another prolific writer on Canadian history - Johnathan Vance here at UWO. I've never talked to him about Rosses, though.
I am taking two courses this year with another prolific writer on Canadian history - Johnathan Vance here at UWO. I've never talked to him about Rosses, though.
Ha, I was at the rifle range a couple of years ago, and another shooter had a really minty SMLE he'd just gotten...after about 20 rounds the cosmolene was just a'runnin out of the wood, all over the rifle, a very slimy mess...
You need to be careful in this circumstance though. I keep my rifles totally clean but you can't always get the oil out of the stock completely. In fact I advise against it - its the only tthing stopping wet wood from swelling.
What IS important though it to make sure that oil or cosmolene does not infiltrate into the chamber. A good way to increase chamber pressures dangerously high. This in and of itself would be a danger to anyone (Ross rifle or otherwise) on the battlefield.
Its hard enough when you have to deal with mud and gore in the chamber area but cosmolene as well. Yikes.
Nothing much changes. I'm sure the WW1 Tommy spent as much effort keeping his rifle meticulously clean in the trenches as a GI spends keeping sand out of his M16 variant today in the mid-east. It's an uphill battle under the best of circumstances and your life DOES depend upon it.
Troops in the trenches cleaned their rifles as often as twice a day, conditions permitting, once after standto first thing in the morning, and again toward the end of the day. Only a fraction of the troops would have their rifles torn down at any moment. Similarly machine gunners spent a lot of time on maintenance.
Something to think about with respect to rifles becoming hot and jamming...
The coefficient of expansion of steel is .00000645in/in/degree.
If one of the interrupted threads on a Mk. III Ross bolthead is 0.100" thick, and if it rose 200 degrees in temperature, it would expand .00000645x0.100x200, or 0.000128". One and a quarter ten thousandths of an inch. A 1" long bolthead would lengthen 0.00128". The receiver ring would also enlarge, but this could tend to increase the increase the space between the locking abutments.
These changes are miniscule.
I wonder if a lubrication failure could be a contributory factor?
The coefficient of expansion of steel is .00000645in/in/degree.
If one of the interrupted threads on a Mk. III Ross bolthead is 0.100" thick, and if it rose 200 degrees in temperature, it would expand .00000645x0.100x200, or 0.000128". One and a quarter ten thousandths of an inch. A 1" long bolthead would lengthen 0.00128". The receiver ring would also enlarge, but this could tend to increase the increase the space between the locking abutments.
These changes are miniscule.
I wonder if a lubrication failure could be a contributory factor?
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Makes sense to me as methinks a sniper would have allot more time to be fiddly, and fastidious about their rifle then the guy stuck in the muddy trench.
Don't forget trying the adjust ones rear sight on a Mosin or a Mauser after several firings...Ouch freaking hot!
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Makes sense to me as methinks a sniper would have allot more time to be fiddly, and fastidious about their rifle then the guy stuck in the muddy trench.
Don't forget trying the adjust ones rear sight on a Mosin or a Mauser after several firings...Ouch freaking hot!
Maybe that's one of the reasons why the rear sight was relocated back to the receiver on the No 4 Enfield?
Longer sighting plane doesn't make a gun any more accurate or inaccurate, it gives the shooter a better chance of being accurate. The gun doesn't care what sights are on it. - dan
LOL, don't worry, I know that feeling. - dan
As regards the Ross Rifle in a rapid-fire situation, I wrote this up on another thread, but, here goes again.
About 10 years ago, I entered the CFB Shilo 2-man Iron Sight Match. This is a difficult match (made more difficult by Shilo's delightful custom of setting the range up AFTER people get there: no possibility whatever of "practising" for the shoot!) and involved somethng close to 40 reactive steel targets at ranges between 85 yards (cigarette-pack size) to 540 metres (21-inch plate hiding behind a bush and half-concealed), along rolling ground. Lots of dead ground, too, and plates of varying sizes. I wasted 10 rounds on one target that was actually a larger plate, but it was an extra 150 yards out and half-concealed, so my slugs were dropping into the ground before they got there!
Match was unlimited ammunition, any iron-sighted rifle, 2-man teams. I entered along with a friend, both of us using 1910 Ross Rifles, me one from the old HMS Canada, him using a stripped 1910 from my spares rack. We shot with HXP-76 ammunition (Greek). The rifles we were up against included M-14s, at least one M-21, FALs, C-7s, a Minimi, Lee-Enfields, Mausers and so forth. We were the only team with Rosses.
Match was time-limited to 10 minutes, including the run-up from the Start position.
We competed the match in 8 minutes and a half, expending 76 rounds in total. The 85-yard targets disappeared shot for shot, as did MOST of the others. There were, of course, *&^$*(* for both of us, which is why we used so much ammo. We came in 10th position and were more than happy.
Fact is, both rifles got good and hot and you could have given yourself a serious burn on the barrel or receiver ring of either rifle. Both bolt handles were cool enough and I suspect that there was VERY little heating of the bolt-handles from the shooting. Sure could not say that about the barrels, though. Both rifles were hot enough that you had to be VERY careful loading them.
Good match, lots of fun.
About 10 years ago, I entered the CFB Shilo 2-man Iron Sight Match. This is a difficult match (made more difficult by Shilo's delightful custom of setting the range up AFTER people get there: no possibility whatever of "practising" for the shoot!) and involved somethng close to 40 reactive steel targets at ranges between 85 yards (cigarette-pack size) to 540 metres (21-inch plate hiding behind a bush and half-concealed), along rolling ground. Lots of dead ground, too, and plates of varying sizes. I wasted 10 rounds on one target that was actually a larger plate, but it was an extra 150 yards out and half-concealed, so my slugs were dropping into the ground before they got there!
Match was unlimited ammunition, any iron-sighted rifle, 2-man teams. I entered along with a friend, both of us using 1910 Ross Rifles, me one from the old HMS Canada, him using a stripped 1910 from my spares rack. We shot with HXP-76 ammunition (Greek). The rifles we were up against included M-14s, at least one M-21, FALs, C-7s, a Minimi, Lee-Enfields, Mausers and so forth. We were the only team with Rosses.
Match was time-limited to 10 minutes, including the run-up from the Start position.
We competed the match in 8 minutes and a half, expending 76 rounds in total. The 85-yard targets disappeared shot for shot, as did MOST of the others. There were, of course, *&^$*(* for both of us, which is why we used so much ammo. We came in 10th position and were more than happy.
Fact is, both rifles got good and hot and you could have given yourself a serious burn on the barrel or receiver ring of either rifle. Both bolt handles were cool enough and I suspect that there was VERY little heating of the bolt-handles from the shooting. Sure could not say that about the barrels, though. Both rifles were hot enough that you had to be VERY careful loading them.
Good match, lots of fun.
I really enjoyed your post , very informative , i wish i was closer , would have loved to participate in te match
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
Then there was Ross's habit of making changes on the production line. A bit sticky if you had to replace parts.
Sir Charles always said that he made the arms that the Standing Small Arms Committee (IIRC) told him to make. When Ross designed his own "perfect" military rifle ,the 280 Military Match, he fitted it with a Mauser style mag not the abomination which the committee wanted and put on the MkIII. The Ross MkIII mag is probably the worst ever put on a military rifle. Ross also wanted to simplify the MkIIIs sight but was turned down.
The Mk111 sight, "the least understood sight in service" Thats a quote from when they were issued to the Home gd in WW2. I keep the sheet of paper which quotes it with my rifle to remind me how to use the sight. Mind you the ones released from British store were different again from the ones in Canadian store.
My Gt Uncle Bill was Canadian Grenadier Gds in WW2 and during trg the armoury Nissan hut burnt down. There was an emergency issue of Ross Rifles to allow training to continue and he was straight on the phone to his Father (CEF WW1) to ask about them!
My Gt Uncle Bill was Canadian Grenadier Gds in WW2 and during trg the armoury Nissan hut burnt down. There was an emergency issue of Ross Rifles to allow training to continue and he was straight on the phone to his Father (CEF WW1) to ask about them!
