Ross Rifle....

koldt said:
Let's see the CEF16 :D

Unfortunately mine is pretty generic :( . Now if I take off the wood and find a name like Lt Flowerdew engraved inside, would make me very happy. :lol:

Anybody got a good load suggestion???

My bore is like new, so any commercial bullet should be able to do OK.
Click to expand...

Not a great butt pic ... :lol:

However, the small circle below and to the left of B/102 1916 says CEF16. The other markings besides the oval Ross cartouche are the III* and the Ross serial numbering system. BTW, I don't handload, so I shoot regular off-the-shelf S&B .303 180gr and get nice groupings at 100 yards.

RossM102.jpg


Regards,
Badger
 
Badger, thanks. If I squint, cross my eyes, and tilt my head to the right, I can make it out :lol: . Any Canadian issued stuff, is great.

I'll have to try some of the S&B.
 
I haven't loaded any for the Ross or SMLE yet but I see that Sierra has a 174 grain match boat tail bullet which should shoot well...."311" diameter. So much wonderful history and generally we as Canadians don't get up to speed and collect our own history. It was great to see this thread go so long with so much interest. Postal match ......why not? Tiriaq is moving this way so I may even meet him in the flesh. Keep the Ross Rifle here in Canada where it belongs!!! I am still looking for one....I haven't made up my mind on these two yet. Cheers, Dave
 
The 174 SMK is a great bullet. It does have a bit of a drawback, being boattailed. There is a limit to how far the bullet can be seated out. Mk. II rifles are throated for Mk. VI ammunition, so there is quite a long bullet jump to the rifling, if this bullet is used. Even a 180 RN cannot be seated long enough to get close to the leade. Love to find some of the 215s that were widely loaded in comercial .303 at one time, for Mk. II use. The CRB mark would have been the issue after the Rosses were withdrawn from front line infantry service, just as Naval issue was, for the ones that eventually became the DA rifles after HMS Canada went back to Chile. As far as I know, if a rifle has a CEF Bn. stamp, it would likely have seen service on the Western Front. It seems unlikely that a rifle would have been marked to a Bn. and then retained in a training facility in Canada. Because the dates that Rosses were exchanged are known - June 1915 for 1st Division, July 1916 for the rest - it is possible to determine the actions in which a given unit was still armed with Rosses.
 
Well,

Picture is worth a buh-zillion words so...

4872ddde.jpg

Can you believe some boner chopped the wood???


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The 'usual' stock markings


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Chamber/reciever marks. Note the 'E' (never knew what that meant till now) and the 'not english make'


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Wrist marks. Note H-H,1943.

Any comments or obsevations appreciated
 
At least the barrel is full length. Its in nice shape, really too bad it got cut. Start searching for a nosecap. Numrich is out - I checked. Once you've found one, the stock can be restored, and it would certainly be worth doing. With the splice under the band, and decent wood match, the restoration will not be noticable. As is, it should be a good shooter. It is my understanding that Home Guard rifles were marked HG + a number on the receiver. By 1943, Ross use was getting pretty limited.
 
Dantforth said:
I haven't loaded any for the Ross or SMLE yet but I see that Sierra has a 174 grain match boat tail bullet which should shoot well...."311" diameter.
Click to expand...
All very well for the 303 Ross....anyone know where I could find bullets(.289 dia.....I think ) to be reloaded into the .280 Ross cartridge ?
 
Mine likes the Sierra 180 flatbase @ 2260 ft/sec..... should get close to that with about 36 grains of 4895. This is a VERY mild load, but it groups nice. Seat to the length of a Mark VII Ball round.... Sierra bullet is different shape than the Mk. VII, and this will crowd the leade just a tiny bit. Pressures are very low.

It certainly will handle full military ammo; a friend and myself did the CFB Shilo 2-man Iron Sight match several years ago with a pair of Rosses, one the Latorre rifle, the other a Bubba Special which still had the full-length barrel. Course of fire was roughly 40 steel plates from 85 metres (cigarette pack size) to a nominal 400 (actually a little over 500: part of the fun of a Shilo match; you never know what you're going to shoot until you get there), which was a 21-inch plate. We fired 38 rounds from one rifle, 39 from the other, downed them all in 8 minutes and a bit, which made us super happy, even if we were in 10th place (competing against full-autos with WWI relics, you expect this). This is only about a 50% hit rate, but give us a break: the targets were on rolling ground with LOTS of dead ground and some neat optical illusions thrown in, just for good luck! We were shooting full-patch HXP-76, which is nice ammo.
 
That nice Sierra BT should work wonders in a good Ross. I don't have a lot of hope for it in a Lee or a P-'14, as both have the Enfield rifling, which prefers a flatbase bullet..... which Sierra also makes. With Enfield rifling, generally there is no great advantage to a boat-tailed bullet, apart from range: no real accuracy advantage. The Mark III Ross used a Ross version of Mauser rifling: 4 wide grooves and narrow lands, 1 turn in 10 inches, LH twist: very distinctive. These shoot nice with the flatbase and should eat up the BTs like candy.
I am scoping a Bubba 1910 right now for this purpose.
 
the keepa said:
Dantforth said:
I haven't loaded any for the Ross or SMLE yet but I see that Sierra has a 174 grain match boat tail bullet which should shoot well...."311" diameter.
Click to expand...
All very well for the 303 Ross....anyone know where I could find bullets(.289 dia.....I think ) to be reloaded into the .280 Ross cartridge ?
Click to expand...

As mentioned, Bertram used to list them ,as well there are the Barnes originals, they had a 288 bullet too. - dan
 
Funny about that .280 Ross bullet...... all the original cartridges I have, including a full box of King's Norton, made for Gibbs, have a slug which is .284 to .285. The only thing I have found that uses a .288 or .289 slug is a single round of the experimental .28 Ross cartridge, for which only a handful of rifles were built. Try using a flatbase .284 and a fairly quick powder so that it will obturate correctly.
 
tiriaq said:
As is, it should be a good shooter.
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Took it out to try. Been a while since I fired it.

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For some reason it didnt like loading the 'top' round if I loaded the mag with a stripper clip. The top round always seemed to end up behind the rim of the round under it.

Also...the 'mag cutoff' is junk. It should block the bolt from going back far enough to strip a round from the mag.This way the loaded mag could be kept in reserve while the gun was loaded singly. The problem is....the bottom of the bolt head has a groove for the extractor to rotate in and this groove ALWAYS hung up on the rim of the top round in the mag.

Just my observations
 
Hey "Klunk"......if you are not satisfied with the group, or the rifle in particular, send it to me.......just put a price on it. I tried the Mk. 3 yesterday....the one marked CRB and it shoots very well. I have some work to do on the pop up peep as I couldn't get the windage adjustment to work...also the elevation screw was very loose....worked but worked too well. Still firing an old box of 150 grain Gevelot ammo in it. This is probably not the best for accuracy but I will address that when I reload. Boy, this topic really took off. Amazing that someone hasn't started a forum for these rifles.....for history, reloading info, competitions, technical notes....etc. Maybe that would be a good project for "Tiriaq" since he is now unemployed......as an aside, since I see others doing the same....if anyone has one for sale or trade...I have Sniders, Martini Henrys, 1871 Mauser Cavalry carbine....for trade bait!
 
Yes, today I pick up my last regular paycheque. Unemployed. A gentleman of leisure, once I finish packing, sell my house, close my shop, and relocate 1500 miles - which involves shipping a seacan through the Port of Montreal. By October, we should be settled. Ross discussion surfaces in various sites, from time to time. Would be nice if there were a site. Along Ross lines, just finishing the restoration of a II*** Ross, made Aug 1909. One of the 20 000 which went to the US as a training rifle. Don't know yet if its going to be a shooter or not. After the problems that Canada had with the IIIs in 1915 and 1916, I've wondered if it might not have been better if the Mk. IIs hadn't been used instead. But on close inspection, IIs have problems of their own. The last IIIs made were probably as servicable as any Ross would ever be, and the mechanical disadvantage of the straight pull action was still there. And a III with bayonet fixed is probably as ungainly a rifle as has ever been fielded.
 
Yes, today I pick up my last regular paycheque. Unemployed. A gentleman of leisure, once I finish packing, sell my house, close my shop, and relocate 1500 miles - which involves shipping a seacan through the Port of Montreal. By October, we should be settled. Ross discussion surfaces in various sites, from time to time. Would be nice if there were a site. Along Ross lines, just finishing the restoration of a II*** Ross, made Aug 1909. One of the 20 000 which went to the US as a training rifle. Don't know yet if its going to be a shooter or not. After the problems that Canada had with the IIIs in 1915 and 1916, I've wondered if it might not have been better if the Mk. IIs hadn't been used instead. But on close inspection, IIs have problems of their own. The last IIIs made were probably as servicable as any Ross would ever be, and the mechanical disadvantage of the straight pull action was still there. And a III with bayonet fixed is probably as ungainly a rifle as has ever been fielded.
 
smellie said:
Funny about that .280 Ross bullet...... all the original cartridges I have, including a full box of King's Norton, made for Gibbs, have a slug which is .284 to .285. The only thing I have found that uses a .288 or .289 slug is a single round of the experimental .28 Ross cartridge, for which only a handful of rifles were built. Try using a flatbase .284 and a fairly quick powder so that it will obturate correctly.
Click to expand...
Thanks, smellie , much appreciated ....will try that out .
Read somewhere that a guy built a "swaging die" and would "bump up" a .284 cal to fit his .289 bore....I wonder how practical that would be .
Have a nice retirement , tiriaq .
 
Regarding the serviceability of the 1910 Ross in combat. Captain George Dibblee, DCM, told me that in the 5th Batt, CMR, "The Ross Rifle was UNPOPULAT due to its length and weight. We had NO trouble with our rifles, but then.... we kept our rifles CLEAN, unlike some other outfits."
My grandfather was a sniper with 54 Batt (Kootenay reg't) and had the greatest respect for the Ross. The only shot he ever talked about was a 300-400 shot at a sandbagged German sniper, total darkness. with success: no more sniping against 54 Batt for a long time thereafter. (They suckered the guy with the tin-hat-on-a-stick and three-on-a-match trick; old, but it worked.)
Checking the who-was-where, I notice that a certain Bavarian reg't was in the Line in that area...... often wondered what would have happened if a certain Obergefreiter had come up against a Ross.......
 
Smellie - have a look at ebay 6548627956. Post card photo of the 54th Kootenays.
Proper training is really the key, isn't it? Not unlike the problems which arose early in the M-16's service.
 
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