Ross Rifle....

Quite agree with Tiriaq as regards proper training. We were trained with the Number 4 before we went onto the FAL and before the "new" shooting program came in which emphasized area fire over single-round accuracy. I think a Ross with about a 26-inch barrel, as offered by the Company and turned down by the Government, would be quite a rifle and would take second place to none. A man using it would not be under-armed by any standard, insofar as single-round capability is concerned.
The key, of course, must be training. The Americans advertised that the M-16 never needed to be cleaned and then loaded ammo with dirty ball powder. Result: disaster. What put them back on track was a rigorous course of maintenance and a decent cleaning kit. In our army, the Ross Company sold cleaning sticks at 5 cents apiece and the Government refused to spend the money. Then the rifles were used with bad ammunition. The only miracle is that our whole army wasn't killed. Yet the Rosses continued as Battalion and as Company sniping rifles until the end of the war and worked fine..... once they were using decent ammo.
I also interviewed 2 men who were in the company of 8 Batt who ran up through the gas at 2nd Ypres; both got very hot under the collar when I asked about rifle problems. Both fired their Rosses until they were too hot to touch to reload, then picked up another Ross from a Cdn casualty, fired that until it was too hot to reload, then went back to their first rifle. Of course, these men were a Private soldier and a Lance-Corporal; surely mere enlisted men could not be expected to have a valid opinion about the rifle they were using. No, these decisions must be made in Ottawa, or in London.
By the way, does anybody out there have a Ross Cleaning Stick that they could post a picture of? From my understanding, it was a toothbrush-type of thing, ground on one end to mate with the locking recesses in the receiver.


Tiriaq: Thanks for the tip on 54; I WILL follow it up. g.
 
With which Cdn Bns did DA386 see service with prior to being transferred to the Royal Navy? Many of these DA rifles seem to be ones which were issued to active service Bns. The DA mark is Chilean, the Royal Navy marks should be on the top of the wrist just to the rear of the tang. Cdn issue marks will be on the right of the butt, or on the bottom of the wrist near the rear of the trigger guard. Because the rifle was retained in service, it will likely have an enlarged chamber, and improved oversized bolt stop. FWIW, DA170 saw service with 15th and 19th Bns, prior to withdrawal from Cdn service, and transfer to the RN. I do not know, but suspect that the transfer took place after the summer of 1916. One DA rifle was assembled from parts in 1918, so some of the rifles may not have seen naval service until late in the war, or even postwar just prior to the transfer of HMS Canada back to Chile. Would ships' arms have been intended for use by Royal Marines, or by sailors armed as circumstances warranted?
 
From"British Secondary Small Arms 1914-18 Arisaka Rifles and Carbines" Edwards

All rifles long or short (SMLE, MLE, MLM) were to be withdrawn from the fleet and replaced by Japanese rifles by order of WS Churchill Nov 1914.
"by the end of 1915 most of the Arisaka rifles had been wihdrawn from duty " for shipment to Russia. The Arisakas would presumably have been replaced with Rosses which were available from the CEF. So the RN would start to receive Rosses in late 1915.
 
Rosses were withdrawn from the Bns of the 1st Division in June 1915, so could have been available after that date. (The rest were withdrawn fron Cdn front line service July 1916). The DA Rosses may include the largest group of 1915 CEF rifles available for study, which is one of the reasons that their Bn marks are interesting. Because they were used by 1st Division units, they may well have been present at the major battles of 1915. As far as DA170 is concerned, the 15th Bn. was engaged at Ypres in April 1915. 19th Bn. arrived in France in Dec 1915, so its transfer to the RN was perhaps a bit later.
 
I found a really nice model 10 in 303 brit today except the stock was bubba'd. All the metal except the front barrel band was there. What are the chances of finding wood to rebuild it to original condition? what are the prices (roughly)? I can pretty much name my price on it just wondering if I should go back and pick it up?


lmk what you think.
Craig
 
There is a tantalyzing reference in Clive Law's new book on Canadian snipers and sniping equipment. He reports and shows Ross rifles in Canadian snipers' hands into the mid period of WWII in Italy. The pictures show cutdown Ross' with the same foreend profile as the rifles most of us dismiss as post war surplus rifles disposed as untrustworthy.
 
Bulldog said:
I found a really nice model 10 in 303 brit today except the stock was bubba'd. All the metal except the front barrel band was there. What are the chances of finding wood to rebuild it to original condition? what are the prices (roughly)? I can pretty much name my price on it just wondering if I should go back and pick it up?


lmk what you think.
Craig

Go get it.

Finding ORIGINAL Ross wood is near impossible....Matching the wood from another rifle would be much easier and it sounds like you could graft it much like my cut-down one. Finding a bayonet cap will be tricky...but its half the fun,right

As for my DA 386...

underside of wrist close to trig gaurd-13 E
same spot but farther back- S 760

Bn 'circle'-CEF 75 or II 5 or 25 or or or....

my arms are getting sore from holding this thing up to the light
 
If worse came to absolute worst, I think that I could make a nosecap repro, simulating either sheet metal or forged. Hate to think how long it would take. Almost got that desperate, before I got lucky, and found a rather expensive one, that I was very pleased to acquire. It completed a restoration involving a new, never used original replacement stock; a piece of unobtanium. The nosecap and stock cost a LOT more than the sported rifle that was rebuilt. But its a great shooter, looks good, and the total cost was within my budget.
Looked at the site posted. Wouldn't be cheap, and would take work, but it is an option. If the sported original was cheap enough, it would be one way of setting up a shooter.
 
Guys, I really think that if we keep up with this Ross Rifle habit of ours, we're gonna have to snuggle up nice to Mother Russia. When you consider the Rosses that Russia got during the Great War, the ones we, the US, Great Britain sent them during the Second War, and the ones they grabbed when they invaded Latvia (the M-10 Ross was the official rifle of the Latvian Army between wars)......... they ended up with close to two-thirds of the total number of Rosses built.
Nice thing is that they seem never to throw anything out, so they could have some parts. Gawd knows they got enough rifles.
 
smellie said:
. When you consider the Rosses that Russia got during the Great War, the ones we, the US, Great Britain sent them during the Second War, and the ones they grabbed when they invaded Latvia (the M-10 Ross was the official rifle of the Latvian Army between wars).........

Really???.....I had no idea

So my question is...

Seen as how I cant read (for sure) my Btn markings....how many battalions were there?

it looks like 25 or 75...there werent 75 battalions in the First Div in WW1 were there?
 
I don't know how many Bns there were in 1st Division, but I doubt they were numbered consecutively in the Division. Some Battalions were pre-War militia units, others were raised as the War progressed. Some were raised in Canada, went to England, and then the unit was broken up and the men sent as drafts to reinforce existing units, so the original Battalion never went into action as a unit. If you googlesearch the different Bn numbers, you might be able to eliminate numbers that could not be possible.
 
First Div had 12 Infantry Battalions in 3 Brigades

1Bgd
1
2
3
4 Battalions

2Bgd
5
7
8
10Battalions

3Bgd
13
14
15
16 Battalions
 
First Div had 12 Infantry Battalions in 3 Brigades

1Bgd
1
2
3
4 Battalions

2Bgd
5
7
8
10Battalions

3Bgd
13
14
15
16 Battalions
 
Thanks! More information all the time. If you research numbered CEF Battalions, you can find their original pre-War designations.
Koldt - A Ross postal match would be a great idea. I got nominated to organise one, but I'm in the process of packing to relocate from Nunavut to Ontario. Gotta have the seacan loaded for shipment 1st week in October.
Most folks can access a 100yd range, that might be the easiest distance, and a standardized target, or at least scoring ring dimensions, need to be agreed upon, as well as a course of fire.
What suggestions do people have? Perhaps a postal match could be combined with shoulder to shoulder at EOHC, EESA, etc. In ON, I'm a member of HCMC.
 
tiriaq, it doesn't have to be anything too formal. Size/type of targets (fig. 11?), 100yds, and round count. Pick a day or weekend, and we could have scores posted by the following Monday. We will be having a Southern Alberta Black gun shoot hopefully mid Octoberish. We'll be running it on a Sat night, and Sunday. As soon as I have a date for the weekend I'll let you know/post it, and maybe line things up with you guys too.

Of course scores have to be submitted along with pictures of guns and gear.... Don't care about the targets, it's the stuff that counts..
 
Postal match for Rosses?

Let's DO it!!!!

checking DA426 latelate last night, notice that this must be a VERY early rifle. Standard Ross markings NOT all there: no cartouche on butt, non-standard serial number, just A1625, but it is the original stock and so forth. All machine work on this rifle is really at a wonderful standard. Besides, it shoots to beat the band, is only dragged down by the loose nut behind the buttplate, same as most rifles.
 
Back
Top Bottom