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RPD Update.
- Thread starter dangertree
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you have a good point. but if they focused on the rifles in order of receiving them we would actually have an idea of when or if they would be approved. at this point we may all be dead and buried before they decide to submit their final report.
you dont think if we doubled their budget for faster APPROVAL they wouldnt have it done in a timely fashion? and more often in our favour?
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And if they did that, we'd be waiting longer for new models of pistols, rifles and shotguns that are currently on the market. It isn't first come first serve, one gun classification at a time. It is multiple files ongoing. Some are waiting for further info to be provided by importers/manufacturers etc, others are straight forward.
This "budget" concept isn't an issue. It isn't like they make more take home money. They get paid salary just the same.
thats all great for new firearms but pushing off FRT's for years and years isnt how any logical system works. it may be in this case that they need more info but there is many other pending FRT entry's that dont have any extra info required and are just sitting in a locker somewhere collecting dust. its clearly obvious they are not trying to do there job in a timely fashion.
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You don't know what files need more info or not. That is speculation. Without access to their files, you can't possibly say for certain what happens inside the lab as far as classification goes. I can tell you right now that there firearms on the FRT that have been submitted for classification that are pending new information, and until new information is provided by the firearm submitter, the classification will remain pending. Meanwhile other guns are being examined and the lab pushes on with them.
I'm not saying they are or aren't pushing them off. I'm just saying files aren't dealt with one at a time. Multiple files, multiple "investigations" all ongoing at once. If they need more information, that request is submitted to the firearm submitted who then has to track down info for the request and submit that info to the lab.
Multiple firearms are in the process of being examined at any given time. Some get approved quickly, like say a 1911 made by a new company, or an AR15 by a new company, while others take longer as the entire design is a new concept with no previous offerings of a like type. Such as the RPD.
The lab won't issue an FRT until they themselves are 100% certain on the classification. The Type 97, cz858 and Swiss Arms have all left the lab with egg on their face. They won't issue anything hastily, or rush anything until they know that their determination is air tight one way or the other.
Just gonna take time.
That's all well and good and totally understandable...... to a point.
I don't believe they are above using this as an excuse for dragging their feet either (this is personal opinion and no I don't have anything to support this). I hope people understand 6187 frt entries in the last 13 months doesn't mean 6187 "new" style firearms. Many are variations on the same : 1911 with 4.2, 4.5, 5.0 & 5.5" barrels for example all get their own FRT but the guns are one and the same (excluding barrel length). I don't think we should be marvelling over 6187 new FRT entries.
Are they busy? Sure but there is no freakin' way I believe it legitimately takes this long with them actively / diligently working on the pending files. The sad thing is there is no effective recourse we can take to hold them accountable. It's just a crappy deal all the way around.
Just sayin'
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I'm not marvelling over it, but those firearms coming in are all processed in one way or the other. That means 6187 different contact in which people have dealt with the lab over a new firearm coming to market. 6187 different makes, models etc. Are some variations on already legally classified guns? Yes. Do those FRT entries write themselves? No. Does every gun need an entry? Yes.
The entries that require physical inspections require the actual inspection, background historical investigation and a written decision. When you look at the most recent publicized written decision about the vz58 pistol, you can tell that there was a lot of dialogue between TVPressPass, Zahal, the lab and CSA, none of which necessarily happens quickly.
Now, factor in the number of different guns requiring inspection and lineage investigations that we know of, plus the guns we don't know that have been submitted, vs the number of people that work at the lab, vs the number or "routine" inspections like "another AR15" or another "1911" and it shouldn't be hard to see why work piles up.
The funny thing is, if no one said the RPD was at the lab, no one would care.
Like the two firearms another importer is working on, that haven't been published. I'll say one is 9mm, and the other is 223, and that it has been going on for some time, yet no one cares. Because no one publically knows or acknowledges them. If they get approved, people will be yelling "take my money", and it will just be another day.
A watched pot never boils...
The entries that require physical inspections require the actual inspection, background historical investigation and a written decision. When you look at the most recent publicized written decision about the vz58 pistol, you can tell that there was a lot of dialogue between TVPressPass, Zahal, the lab and CSA, none of which necessarily happens quickly.
Now, factor in the number of different guns requiring inspection and lineage investigations that we know of, plus the guns we don't know that have been submitted, vs the number of people that work at the lab, vs the number or "routine" inspections like "another AR15" or another "1911" and it shouldn't be hard to see why work piles up.
The funny thing is, if no one said the RPD was at the lab, no one would care.
Like the two firearms another importer is working on, that haven't been published. I'll say one is 9mm, and the other is 223, and that it has been going on for some time, yet no one cares. Because no one publically knows or acknowledges them. If they get approved, people will be yelling "take my money", and it will just be another day.
A watched pot never boils...
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Add in converted autos that need to be sent in for inspection when transferred. Plus crime guns and probably court time for those.
dangertree
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How long are people waiting for C/A transfers? (brutal BTW)
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Wait for the type 81 to be classified then add that time it took to the time on rpd and thats when it will be determined. About 5 years
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They wanted more documentation a couple of weeks ago according to AE, and got it. I would think that additional documentation would be requested after a round of firearm inspection to answer any questions that may have arisen. If that is the case, it may not be long before a written decision comes down. Speculation of course, no idea really.
fenceline what was the last positive FRT submitted for a belt fed? you tell me when they are going to give the next belt fed a non-restricted FRT!!!
good luck. i think they want more money from the bigger spenders.
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Mg34. 1919s. How would money be a motivator for government employees? It isn't private business. There is no profit margin. They get paid either way.
Belt Feds really aren't worth it here unless they are of a design that is pre 45. Not many companies cater to that market. Hence why they don't have more approvals.
Do I understand correctly that
a) nobody has submitted a DSA RPD for evaluation (apologies as this has likely been covered somewhere)
b) we would have to go through the same process of crowd-sourcing a sample for testing unless a company was willing to do that at their expense (unlikely since DSA does not want to export in quantity to a retailer), or some combination of those two- if we wanted to be able to buy a DSA on the US market and import ourselves through a broker. I'm thinking of the only way to get the DSA RPD carbines into Canada, even in small quantities.
Thoughts?
a) nobody has submitted a DSA RPD for evaluation (apologies as this has likely been covered somewhere)
b) we would have to go through the same process of crowd-sourcing a sample for testing unless a company was willing to do that at their expense (unlikely since DSA does not want to export in quantity to a retailer), or some combination of those two- if we wanted to be able to buy a DSA on the US market and import ourselves through a broker. I'm thinking of the only way to get the DSA RPD carbines into Canada, even in small quantities.
Thoughts?
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There is an rpd in for evaluation. The brand has not been made public. If it isn't a DSA, a DSA will require its own frt entry.
The one AE has submitted was not a DSA, they had DSA ones on order and DSA cancelled on them. I asked IRG about getting a carbine here as they list them on their site and they are not interested in doing the FRT thing.
I would like a DSA Carbine as well so if you figure out someone who will submit one I'm in.
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