Ruger products-dead for me due to idiotic engineering

[Blastattack]

If you are in Alaska, for example... crossing the Bering strait is it still going West or going Far East?

my problem is that after so many years, SKS, Mauser etc were designed.. the engineering is not improving, at least , for Ruger, but goes totally nutz and the prices for that crap do not go down...

my problem is that ppl have no idea what is a TRUE field strip is... as some still think that using some sort of tool to get the bolt out or significant effort to do so or doing a field strip on a table is a field stripping

my problem is that false publicity for SHTF prep in terms of quality and mechanics misleads ppl.. that's my problem

my problem is that ppl comparing bolt to semi-auto reliability

my problem is that ppl do not use the cheapest ammo available to test for a true rifle reliability

my problem is that people don't put 500-1000 rounds at once to test for reliability (this is just 20-30 mags-in real combat they fly away fast)

You're problem is that you're delusionally paranoid about the world ending. It's not going to happen, so stop wasting your time and effort worrying and preparing for something that won't occur. It's sensible and reasonable to prepare an emergency response cache in case of major emergency such as fire, flood, hurricane/tornado etc. That's what normal people do. However, testing 500-1000 round dumps to simulate some sort of dystopic future anarchic fantasy firefight is bordering on unstable.

Ruger products are great. Takedown of a Mark III kinda sucks, but it's not exactly hard to do. A MK II is quite easy once you've done it once or twice. The MK IV is awesomely simple. The 10/22 is, generally speaking, fantastically simple and works very well almost all the time. Considering 99.9% of their consumers are simply looking for a good quality product at a decent price, Ruger does a good job of satisfying them. But you can't please everyone as this thread clearly shows.

 

[burnaby]

Someone's problem is they have too much time on their hands.

Luv my SR22 with Volquartsen trigger group. Cleaning is for the maid.

 

[Don_Parsons]

Cleaning is easy for all firearms.

Wash rifles and hand guns in river.
Then dunk in pail of used motor oil.

Lifes to short to worry the small stuff.
Every time a firearm needs cleaning, sell it and buy a new one.

Simple easy fast.

 

[easyrider604]

Not a 10/22 and Mark1/2/3 lover myself. But those I owned were totally functionally reliable even when gunked up with hundreds, maybe thousands of rounds worth of powder/lead residue.

Even when the actions felt gritty, they still worked reliably. Spraying with WD40 restored the slickness quickly. Yeah, I know now WD40 is not a lubricant, but that just reinforces the "durability" reputation. They can run well even without lubrication.

I did get rid of the MarkII pistol because its dismantle and assembly procedure was too hard to learn, at the time, for me. I sold my 10/22 because it could not hit the proverbial side-of-barn. Looking back, I should have kept both, or maybe not...

Would I buy new versions of these two guns? No, because I have decided that I will only stick to accurate .22LR bolties, and my smallest handgun will be a 9mm.

I truly love other Ruger designs/models, among them the P-series DA/SA aluminum framed pistols, the SR1911 and most specially the GP100.

One more thing, cleaning is over-rated.

 

[Bittereinder]

I've never tried it or owned one, but yes, the older Mark pistols seem really hard to disassemble. Buckmarks are the same, but both are apparently very reliable. Surficial cleaning without gutting the thing seems good enough.

10/22: ok, a bit awkward to pull apart. I recently gave mine a deep clean, taking the bolt down to its components, etc. But you don't have to do that all the time.

But why slam the entire company based on two guns? Admittedly, two of their more popular ones, but there's a lot more. The M77s are excellent bolt actions, very rugged and stupidly easy to clean. Their revolvers rock. The Ruger American Pistol has a super easy take down.

Ruger tries a lot of things and some are hits, some are misses, but they're very reliable and rugged.

I don't have one, but if you want a SHTF gun that would probably survive a generation or two with minimal technology? Get a convertible 357/9mm single action. Maybe not the right choice for when you need to tactically operate yourself through legions of enemies, but that convertible SA pistol will do a lot of jobs and can fire three of the most common pistol calibres out there.

 

[PECHENEG]

You're problem is that you're delusionally paranoid about the world ending. It's not going to happen, so stop wasting your time and effort worrying and preparing for something that won't occur. It's sensible and reasonable to prepare an emergency response cache in case of major emergency such as fire, flood, hurricane/tornado etc. That's what normal people do. However, testing 500-1000 round dumps to simulate some sort of dystopic future anarchic fantasy firefight is bordering on unstable.

Ruger products are great. Takedown of a Mark III kinda sucks, but it's not exactly hard to do. A MK II is quite easy once you've done it once or twice. The MK IV is awesomely simple. The 10/22 is, generally speaking, fantastically simple and works very well almost all the time. Considering 99.9% of their consumers are simply looking for a good quality product at a decent price, Ruger does a good job of satisfying them. But you can't please everyone as this thread clearly shows.

if you witness war, your country disintegration, then you would understand, otherwise-sure, prepare for emergency and not big SHTF.. but let me tell you not all big wars will happen "somewhere/ elsewhere" one day it will happen on the grounds of N. America.. believe it or not

Read again my posts-I clearly indicate, that most of the time the guns from Ruger are quite reliable.. but not when you use CHEAP AMMO + DON'T CLEAN and PUT 500 rounds straight -this was proven by most people I know and who have ruger 10/22 and MARKS

Again, if you are originally from the country, which barely lost any civilians/ soldiers in significant wars, then you won't think about SHTF (significant-is >1 mln/ per conflict, not just hundreds of thousands)

 

[PECHENEG]

cleaning is easy for all firearms.

Wash rifles and hand guns in river.
Then dunk in pail of used motor oil.

Lifes to short to worry the small stuff.
Every time a firearm needs cleaning, sell it and buy a new one.

Simple easy fast.

a++

 

[PECHENEG]

I've never tried it or owned one, but yes, the older Mark pistols seem really hard to disassemble. Buckmarks are the same, but both are apparently very reliable. Surficial cleaning without gutting the thing seems good enough.

10/22: ok, a bit awkward to pull apart. I recently gave mine a deep clean, taking the bolt down to its components, etc. But you don't have to do that all the time.

But why slam the entire company based on two guns? Admittedly, two of their more popular ones, but there's a lot more. The M77s are excellent bolt actions, very rugged and stupidly easy to clean. Their revolvers rock. The Ruger American Pistol has a super easy take down.

Ruger tries a lot of things and some are hits, some are misses, but they're very reliable and rugged.

I don't have one, but if you want a SHTF gun that would probably survive a generation or two with minimal technology? Get a convertible 357/9mm single action. Maybe not the right choice for when you need to tactically operate yourself through legions of enemies, but that convertible SA pistol will do a lot of jobs and can fire three of the most common pistol calibres out there.

I am talking about two products from Ruger, which I tried.. should I try more than three? Should I try all of them-two most popular products is enough for me to conclude that it is very LOW ENGINEERING culture, unlike Germany/ Russia companies

357/9mm-will check-Thanks!

 

[Bittereinder]

I am talking about two products from Ruger, which I tried.. should I try more than three? Should I try all of them-two most popular products is enough for me to conclude that it is very LOW ENGINEERING culture, unlike Germany/ Russia companies

357/9mm-will check-Thanks!

I get if the two you tried turned you off, fair enough. I think the Ruger revolvers and M77s are well designed, but admittedly they are just Ruger's take on very old basic designs. To your point, the M77 is a copy of the Mauser bolt action.

For those established designs, it seems that Ruger's approach is to add metal, which I like, hence there are apparently "Ruger only" loads in some reloading manuals.

I get the impression from a few sources that Ruger's engineering focus is heavy on the manufacturing process so they can produce them at low cost. Maybe they are only reliable enough in a North American context, rather than the third-world proof design of the Kalashnikov. This is speaking only of the Ruger only designs, not really a fair comparison for bolt actions which are inherently simple and rugged.

I'd be curious to hear how things like a mini 14 or the Ruger piston-based ARs stand up. I've never tried either.

 

[PECHENEG]

I get if the two you tried turned you off, fair enough. I think the Ruger revolvers and M77s are well designed, but admittedly they are just Ruger's take on very old basic designs. To your point, the M77 is a copy of the Mauser bolt action.

For those established designs, it seems that Ruger's approach is to add metal, which I like, hence there are apparently "Ruger only" loads in some reloading manuals.

I get the impression from a few sources that Ruger's engineering focus is heavy on the manufacturing process so they can produce them at low cost. Maybe they are only reliable enough in a North American context, rather than the third-world proof design of the Kalashnikov. This is speaking only of the Ruger only designs, not really a fair comparison for bolt actions which are inherently simple and rugged.

I'd be curious to hear how things like a mini 14 or the Ruger piston-based ARs stand up. I've never tried either.

Kalashnikov is not a third World rifle-it is a Worldwide class rifle with THE BEST ENGINEERING DESIGN + PRICE + RELIABILITY when you combine these all (there are better rifles in each category alone or when any two combined)
What is considered 1st World (the best World? Or the World that lives at expense of the rest of the planet?) and second World nowadays?

It terms of Ruger engineering, it looks like they are following the old school approach i.e.: let's see what we can manufacture using previous, even strange/ stupid production lide designs.. and then see if we can create a new product... this is understandable... but is not how things should work nowadays, especially, with 3D technologies...

using 3D will inevitably lead to more composite... which I do not necessarily like... the only thing I like now in Mark line pistols is METAL

The only thing which I like in Ruger 10/22... there is none left as trigger group is stupid plastic

 

[wayupnorth]

just so im positive on what we are discussing here.

we are comparing a Rime-fire 22LR rifle to..... center-fire rifles made in Germany and the Eastern Block?

ya, that sounds like apples to apples.

i could kinda see some semblance of sanity at the beginning but brother as this thread goes on your freak flag is starting to fly a little too high.

and your anger towards the trigger group of the 10/22 is totally unfounded.
its the Trigger Body that plastic, everything inside is the same metal it has always been.
has anyone ever heard of the new plastic trigger guard failing?
i just did a web search and couldn't find any.

 

[Don_Parsons]

I talk to Justin, he told me there will be no war. LOL.

The last thing I want when the world ends is a firearm.

I plan on having a top quality can opener and a good spoon.

Everyone I know is heading to the mountains, so I'm heading to Saskatchewan too feed on garder-snakes, mice, and wheat.

My Dad told me that the man with a spoon is the person you should fear.

A lot off topic, so a chunk of junk 10/22 with a broken stock and bent barrle better than 2 Ruger 10/22's with broken stock and both with bent barrels. Ha

 

[PECHENEG]

just so im positive on what we are discussing here.

we are comparing a Rime-fire 22LR rifle to..... center-fire rifles made in Germany and the Eastern Block?

ya, that sounds like apples to apples.

i could kinda see some semblance of sanity at the beginning but brother as this thread goes on your freak flag is starting to fly a little too high.

and your anger towards the trigger group of the 10/22 is totally unfounded.
its the Trigger Body that plastic, everything inside is the same metal it has always been.
has anyone ever heard of the new plastic trigger guard failing?
i just did a web search and couldn't find any.

1. comparing rifles/ handguns from 40s-50s to crap from Ruger, but modern... I think this kind of evens the difference of rim vs centre isn't it? I would expect after 50 years of thinking Ruger would produce something more reasonable. Regardless, we are talking about crazy engineering ideas.. how this does influence rim vs centre fire?????
2. trigger group in cheap plastic box like in Ruger 10/22-is like whole group is plastic IMHO. And even then, plastic trigger box in 10/22 for me is FAAAAR secondary to inability of truly field strip it
3. idiotic Mark 3 housespring design is unbeatable so far in my gun collection
4. not sure what of just stated above has to do with a freak flag?

 

[PECHENEG]

To: wayupnorth
Now about f... MARK series:

when I put Mark 3 together.. apparently something was slightly bend/ wrong and it is not me, 'coz even a 30+ year experienced gunsmith didn't see/ couldn't figure what was wrong...

he changed the whole trigger assembly TWICE, man, TWICE!!! trying two different NEW trigger assemblies for the stupid thing to finally DRY work.. wait I didn't shoot it yet

we sat and visually inspected all parts we changed-there were no visual differences.. between old and new parts, yet with original parts gun didn't work and with the second pair of new ones gun worked fine

WTF is that...? I paid f... 140$ for all new parts and gunsmith fixing the gun w/o figuring the problem...

am I angry after that??? I think I am very angry!
Do you think this is called a freak flag? I don't think so
I think this never happened to me with any other rifles or handguns
I think if you allow 0.001 mcm precision/ deviation in your handgun, you suck as an engineer, unless, this is an atomic bomb

I had enough with Mark 3 to experiment further.. but some people say that if you just turn the spring in the bolt.. (horizontal flip) it will make Mark not functional... visually it will look same.. but won't function... I had enough to try it.... but if that's true.... then it is an ultimate failure

Back to 10/22: again, trigger and plastic around it is the smallest problem, but when somebody positions this 10/22 crap as a survival rifle and you cannot strip the bolt out without having a freaking allen key or screwdriver, this is a fundamental failure in engineering design... this is the same stupidity as those u-tube survivalists who are setting up a bug-out/ survival rifle without a back-up sights or an easy tool-less way to get rid of the stupid broken scope and finally quickly use the sights... this is fundamentally wrong as investing into a special pen for astronauts by Americans when Russians just used a freaking pencil.. this just shows a deep fundamental crisis in engineering ideas.. again.. what would you expect from people who think that strawberries grow on a tree.. who are interested in Kardashian's ass and spent life in a vicious circle of EAT-WATCH TV on SOFA-POOP-EAT etc.. now this affects engineers as well

 

[easyrider604]

This is looking like the firearms equivalent of road rage................ Where's that palm-face emoticon when you need it?

 

[PECHENEG]

This is looking like the firearms equivalent of road rage................ Where's that palm-face emoticon when you need it?

the problem is RUGER definitely suckz, 'coz of the above.... but of all crap it was the best... now I am not sure... which reasonable SHTF .22 semi-auto is out there and same question about well built , reliable and not a mechanical nightmare .22 pistol... I guess.. with the pistol I will just go for GLOCK 17 conversion or simmilar.. but for the semi-auto .22... I don't know

I guess, now after venting my frustration (sorry guys, and thanks for listening to my pain), I am ready for constructive suggestions for .22 SHTF semiauto RIFLE/ pistol. It could be more expensive than CrapUger

 

[easyrider604]

I guess, now after venting my frustration (sorry guys, and thanks for listening to my pain), I am ready for constructive suggestions for .22 SHTF semiauto RIFLE/ pistol. It could be more expensive than CrapUger

.22LR semi auto rifle: Marlin 60 stainless, and buy a Spee-D-Loader 120 Round Speed Loader,
https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/pro...l-tube-fed-rifles-and-22-ammo-722466108150.do

.22LR pistol for SHTF.....22LR....really? You said it....Glock 17, and add .22LR conversion, I agree. At least you got a G17 which is generally accepted as THE SHTF handgun.

 

[PECHENEG]

.22LR semi auto rifle: Marlin 60 stainless

.22LR pistol for SHTF.....22LR....really? You said it....Glock 17, and add .22LR conversion, I agree. At least you got a G17 which is generally accepted as THE SHTF handgun.

no .22 pistol just for a tactical pair in the same caliber for kids/ wife training... .22 pistol-not for SHTF
Thanks for the semi-auto rifle suggestion, will start studying that product: already looked quickly: tubed mag is strange... but ok... but still to disassemble you need a screwdriver, tho a simple coin will work.. hmmm

 

[Bittereinder]

Kalashnikov is not a third World rifle-it is a Worldwide class rifle with THE BEST ENGINEERING DESIGN + PRICE + RELIABILITY when you combine these all (there are better rifles in each category alone or when any two combined)
What is considered 1st World (the best World? Or the World that lives at expense of the rest of the planet?) and second World nowadays?

It terms of Ruger engineering, it looks like they are following the old school approach i.e.: let's see what we can manufacture using previous, even strange/ stupid production lide designs.. and then see if we can create a new product... this is understandable... but is not how things should work nowadays, especially, with 3D technologies...

using 3D will inevitably lead to more composite... which I do not necessarily like... the only thing I like now in Mark line pistols is METAL

The only thing which I like in Ruger 10/22... there is none left as trigger group is stupid plastic

To clarify, I said the Kalashnikov is third world proof, and I meant that as a good thing. I'm referring to it's resistance to harsh conditions and sometimes poor treatment / lack of cleaning, etc. Kalashnikov made a good adaptation of Schmeisser's designs. German and Russian.

 

[PECHENEG]

To clarify, I said the Kalashnikov is third world proof, and I meant that as a good thing. I'm referring to it's resistance to harsh conditions and sometimes poor treatment / lack of cleaning, etc. Kalashnikov made a good adaptation of Schmeisser's designs. German and Russian.

OK then, my comment is withdrawn.
It is a long dispute if Kalashnikov adapted German designs. Germans adapted SVT designs etc..