Ruger red label 3

Ruger knows they won't sell well it's all about marketing and advertizeing that is why it is outsourced . All reproductions are not money makers and they are not really the same as the original guns example the winchester and browning model 12 clones OK guns close but no cigar that goes for all reproductions. The Ruger o/u was and will be a dud IMHO
 
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straightshooter said:
CSMC entered into a similar arrangement with Savage in 2017 to build their (new at the time) Savage Fox A Grade. Just like the Red Label III is unlikely to be a big seller for Ruger, the Fox A Grade didn’t sell well for Savage. Interestingly, while Savage no longer sells the Fox A Grade, CSMC still does. In fact, Savage only ever sold the A Grade in 20 guage, whereas CSMC now makes them in 12, 20, and 28 gauge.

There’s a used Savage Fox A Grade in 20 ga available for $4K CAD at a shop on Vancouver Island. Meanwhile, the same model and gauge costs $6400 USD purchased from CSMC (just this week they reduced some, but not all of them, to $4750). All of those from CSMC have a higher level finish.

I expect the Red Label III will follow the same pattern:
  • It won’t sell well for Ruger
  • It will continue to be available from CSMC at a higher price point
  • Those purchased from CSMC will be better finished (enabled by the higher price)
I wouldn’t be surprised if all of this was deliberate. Both Savage and Ruger are not known for high end models. They can benefit from an arrangement like this because they get a better quality product into the market under their brand. Yet, they don’t have the cost of tooling up to manufacture the model and they don’t have to discontinue the product entirely when sales lag. Both brands stand to be immortalized in the sense that their name would live on even if the company does not - much like Parkers can still be bought new from CSMC.
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Just a quick note. The Savage Fox may have worn the Fox brand name but mechanically was nothing like an original Fox, or the other Foxes CSMC currently makes. It was a reworked version of another CSMC model, whose name escapes me at the moment.
 
warzaw said:
Ruger knows they won't sell well it's all about marketing and advertizeing that is why it is outsourced . All reproductions are not money makers and they are not really the same as the original guns example the winchester and browning model 12 clones OK guns close but no cigar that goes for all reproductions. The Ruger o/u was and will be a dud IMHO
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I think a fair number of knowledgeable people might disagree with you when considering the Parker Reproductions and the CSMC A H Fox reproductions. The Foxes technically are not reproductions. They are a continuation of regular production and serial numbered in sequence as a result. I don’t have any experience with their M21 Repro.
 
Respectfully please clarify why are they not reproductions ? Good guns yes no arguement but Remington did not make the orignal Parker that they offered years past ? Savage Fox grey line ? made by CSMC ? dont know.
 
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canvasback said:
Just a quick note. The Savage Fox may have worn the Fox brand name but mechanically was nothing like an original Fox, or the other Foxes CSMC currently makes. It was a reworked version of another CSMC model, whose name escapes me at the moment.
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The CSMC model that you refer to is called the RBL (Round Box Lock). The Savage Fox A Grade is, indeed, a modification of the RBL. In fact, the modifications are cosmetic. The guns are virtually the same. However, this doesn’t augment nor detract from the worth of either model.

The RBL has been available for many years. There are those (mostly in the US as CSMC does not retail in Canada) who dislike the RBL. How many of those folks actually own one or have shot one is unknown. There are also those who can’t say enough good things about them. What I do know is that my 20 ga Savage Fox A Grade is the most amazing shotgun it has been my pleasure to own. The gun itself came with no flaws. It looks amazing with beautifully figured walnut, case colored receiver, and blacked barrels.

Functionally, it has performed perfectly. On the last day of pheasant season this year, I missed a shot with it (first miss in over two years of hunting with it). That was frustrating/embarrassing. It happened with 4 other hunters watching. Damn pheasant managed to position a tree between us just as it flushed. Up until that bird, I could honestly claim to have never missed a shot with it.

Those who are fixated on the fact that “it’s not a real Fox” or “it’s just a redesign of the RBL” are focused on legitimate differences that matter greatly to someone hoping to field a 20 ga A H Fox at a fraction of the price. But, this is an unrealistic hope to begin with.

Conversely, for people who are looking for the features upland hunters crave today, these guns are a dream come true. What features am I talking about?

  • 26 -28” side-by-side barrels, blued (not chromed, cerakote, or what-have-you).
  • Case colored, rounded box lock receiver with double triggers
  • Smooth functioning open and close without looseness or tightness
  • Well balanced, light and lively (6 lbs)
  • Checkered English (straight) stock, splinter forend, with attractively figured walnut
  • Removable chokes
IMHO, there is no better upland gun for the price in Canada.
 
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patricksbb391 said:
I have a Ruger Gold Label and a couple ,28 ga Red Labels. Beautiful, so park that debate.

Regarding, Red Label #3, I would look at something else.
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The thing is that it's all about opinion, just because you own and like them doesn't mean everyone else does, each to their own. You like them and that's great but you don't get to park the debate because you don't like what you hear.
 
straightshooter said:
The CSMC model that you refer to is called the RBL (Round Box Lock). The Savage Fox A Grade is, indeed, a modification of the RBL. In fact, the modifications are cosmetic. The guns are virtually the same. However, this doesn’t augment nor detract from the worth of either model.

The RBL has been available for many years. There are those (mostly in the US as CSMC does not retail in Canada) who dislike the RBL. How many of those folks actually own one or have shot one is unknown. There are also those who can’t say enough good things about them. What I do know is that my 20 ga Savage Fox A Grade is the most amazing shotgun it has been my pleasure to own. The gun itself came with no flaws. It looks amazing with beautifully figured walnut, case colored receiver, and blacked barrels.

Functionally, it has performed perfectly. On the last day of pheasant season this year, I missed a shot with it (first miss in over two years of hunting with it). That was frustrating/embarrassing. It happened with 4 other hunters watching. Damn pheasant managed to position a tree between us just as it flushed. Up until that bird, I could honestly claim to have never missed a shot with it.

Those who are fixated on the fact that “it’s not a real Fox” or “it’s just a redesign of the RBL” are focused on legitimate differences that matter greatly to someone hoping to field a 20 ga A H Fox at a fraction of the price. But, this is an unrealistic hope to begin with.

Conversely, for people who are looking for the features upland hunters crave today, these guns are a dream come true. What features am I talking about?

  • 26 -28” side-by-side barrels, blued (not chromed, cerakote, or what-have-you).
  • Case colored, rounded box lock receiver with double triggers
  • Smooth functioning open and close without looseness or tightness
  • Well balanced, light and lively (6 lbs)
  • Checkered English (straight) stock, splinter forend, with attractively figured walnut
  • Removable chokes
IMHO, there is no better upland gun for the price in Canada.
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You may have mistaken clarification regarding branding with criticism, of which I have none. Glad you are happy with yours.

As far as CSMC goes, I’ve read both good and bad. I haven’t bought one of their guns so I have no comment but I do applaud their efforts at NA manufacturing. I have shouldered their Galazan O/U and that is as finely made a gun as I’ve picked up. And I’ve picked up a lot of good ones.
 
Falconflyer said:
The thing is that it's all about opinion, just because you own and like them doesn't mean everyone else does, each to their own. You like them and that's great but you don't get to park the debate because you don't like what you hear.
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Fair enough, but let's go to a skeet or 5 stand range and compare. Bring yours, I will bring mine.

Besides, other than stirring the "Pot", what are you suggesting is better? Specifically, .12 ga SxS and .28 ga O/U?

Lets meet mid-point between myself and wherever you are.

I can do more than "Bench Race"
 
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warzaw said:
Respectfully please clarify why are they not reproductions ? Good guns yes no arguement but Remington did not make the orignal Parker that they offered years past ? Savage Fox grey line ? made by CSMC ? dont know.
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I’m not sure if I correctly understand your question. But I’ll try.

The Parker Reproduction is an exactl copy of Remington era Parkers. Numerous guns were sent to Japan to be sure every piece was reproduced exactly. The Repros are generally considered “better” because they are the same design but made with modern steel.

The A H Fox made by CSMC is also the same design as the original Fox guns. However, CSMC acquired the rights to the Fox brand name and is authorized to call their guns Foxes, not Fox reproductions.
 
patricksbb391 said:
Fair enough, but let's go to a skeet or 5 stand range and compare. Bring yours, I will bring mine.

Besides, other than stirring the "Pot", what are you suggesting is better? Specifically, .12 ga SxS and .28 ga O/U?

Lets meet mid-point between myself and wherever you are.

I can do more than "Bench Race"
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Well, silence is Golden.

I owned 2 of 4 known Gold Labels in Canada, at the same time. I sold the more well enjoyed of the 2 to someone on this thread, and it was still a beautiful SxS. There may be another 2 in Canada, but I am unable to confirm.

So, regarding the Gold Label, what is your point of reference? I can assume you have never handled or owned.

As for the red Label .28 ga,, it is established as the best of that production run. Have you ever seen one? shot one? I own a couple,

So given the scarcity of both platforms, please provide details that support your so strongly worded opinion.

Respectively, I am all ears.
 
canvasback said:
:coffee::coffee:I’m not sure if I correctly understand your question. But I’ll try.

The Parker Reproduction is an exactl copy of Remington era Parkers. Numerous guns were sent to Japan to be sure every piece was reproduced exactly. The Repros are generally considered “better” because they are the same design but made with modern steel.

The A H Fox made by CSMC is also the same design as the original Fox guns. However, CSMC acquired the rights to the Fox brand name and is authorized to call their guns Foxes, not Fox reproductions.
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So what you saying the Remington is a reroduction but the new Fox is not because CSMC has the paper rights to the Fox gun. Moot point . I agree to disagree but i respect your opinion :coffee:
 
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patricksbb391 said:
I owned 2 of 4 known Gold Labels in Canada, at the same time. I sold the more well enjoyed of the 2 to someone on this thread, and it was still a beautiful SxS. There may be another 2 in Canada, but I am unable to confirm.
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My hunting partner has one. His user name on this forum is Sharptail. I don't know if you're including him in your count or not.
 
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