Rusty Gunpowder
- Thread starter jeremy403
- Start date
I got 16 lbs. of the old #44 Ammomart powder in a purchase of a man's gun collection. There was rust on the lids inside. I had a friend of mine with a good smeller take a few whiffs. I gave him some 3031 to sniff. He said they smelled the same. I've been shooting it in 30-30, 308, 8x57, 8mm-06, etc. It is a touch hotter than 3031, so I notch back 10%. I dumped it all separately, checked each can, then put it in plastic containers. This stuff was kept in a heated room for many years, and never saw daylight until I got it.
Edit: I did the same as fingers, except I used a fan and did the deed inside. If anyone needs an empty can for their collection, I have 16 of them!
Edit: I did the same as fingers, except I used a fan and did the deed inside. If anyone needs an empty can for their collection, I have 16 of them!
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What you're describing doesn't mean the powder was bad or had even started to deteriorate. Depending on how old that lot of powder was, it may well have been within it's designated parameters.
I have what's left of a partial 25 pound drum of surplus IMR3031, which I purchased from Hodgdon's almost fifty years ago, along with 19 others.
That powder seems to have been a slower burning lot than the canister powder available off the shelf, even back then.
This powder was marked with a Dupont label, dated 1941 and only large black numerals 3031 on a white background. There were all sorts of other markings as well, such as lot numbers and who was authorized to receive it.
Nothing to indicate it was a special slow burning lot, anywhere on the drum.
This powder will give consistently slower velocities with every load suggested in a late printed manual. However, when I look back at the first, 1967, Hornady Handbook, it shows a lighter maximum load for this powder than the new manual to get similar velocities.
However, when I checked some data from a passed on, personal, data/load recipe book from the early fifties, when all hand loaders were considered to be nut cases and magicians, the loads used, with another lot of this powder, with close date, was much higher to get the same velocities listed in later manuals.
Back in those days, the fellows velocity figures were done by calculating the time it took the bullets to travel through two screens, 50 yards apart.
I use this data for that powder and it's almost identical in performance, according to my old Chrony and now my magnetospeed.
Consider, this powder was considered slow enough for the 22, 6mm and 257 offerings back in those days.
That is oxidation and is an indication that the powder is breaking down. That stuff can self ignite, so you should get rid of it. I saved a link to an article about that very thing somewhere. I’ll post it here when I locate it, but suffice to say your old powder is becoming unstable. FYI, the reason I was researching this is because I had several cans of old (25+ years) powder that had a lot of what appeared to be rust in them. I sprinkled them on my lawn when I found out what was going on.
Found the link; you’ll need to read down a ways...
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=157820
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And before that, wooden kegs.
if it still smells good then it is from the inside of the can. You can most likely blow off the rust dust by sprinkling it down (a few times) in another container and blow across with a compressor at low pressure.
when you cut open the can you will see the light brown/orange colour on the metal.
when you cut open the can you will see the light brown/orange colour on the metal.
One thing to consider, when powder breaks down, it's gradual, until it isn't.
When it reaches a certain point, it breaks down quickly and usually produces a pungent acidic gas that will cause the inside of containers to rust.
One of the coatings used to control the burn rate and keep the granules separate is GRAPHITE.
If you've ever cut open a metal powder can, after emptying it of course, then wiped your finger on the inside, you will notice a slippery, grey film on the tip of your finger.
Graphite should protect the can from rusting if their is no gas present and the cap is sealed properly.
If you're getting rusty, inside walls on your container, that powder is breaking down and releasing acidic gas.
I doubt it would cause a kaboom if loaded and fired, but your results would definitely be very inconsistent.
I had a batch of surplus powder, #44, which was almost identical to 3031, go bad on me. I had been using it up without issues in performance consistency for several years.
That powder came in 1 pound paper containers with metal tops and bottoms.
Every can had what appeared to be "rust" dust in the powder.
The inside of the metal lid and the bottom of the cans were shiny and bright, there weren't any offensive odors.
When that stuff turned bad, it happened very quickly, less than a month. The inside metal surfaces on the lid and bottom of the cans had also rusted and the powder was actually weeping.
I don't believe the "rusty" dust was an indicator of deterioration, when I first got it. Maybe another coating???
I've never seen smokeless powder in "wooden kegs" or kegs that were made for storing it.
I've seen lots of wooden kegs purpose built for storing black powder.
As for all of the powders being in "tin cans", not so. Pressed paper containers were used for decades. Everything from small, one pound containers to 100 pound drums. Tin cans were used off and on, depending on whichever was cheaper at the time or seemed more appealing to the hand loaders. Commercial loaders usually bought everything in bulk paper drums.
Burton Urnie
Regular
- Location
- Near Woodstock New Brunswick
Garbage it.
$20 worth of junk powder that may wreck a $1000 firearm?? And even worse, maybe your health?
I think that certain powders may break down faster.
I used the last of a can of H380 about 10 years ago. Perfect shape, the container was labeled "WW2 surplus"
$20 worth of junk powder that may wreck a $1000 firearm?? And even worse, maybe your health?
I think that certain powders may break down faster.
I used the last of a can of H380 about 10 years ago. Perfect shape, the container was labeled "WW2 surplus"
