Rusty powder
- Thread starter rimfire458
- Start date
She is done, my friend. The rusty dust is a sure indicator of deteriorating powder.
Because the affect this deterioration has on the performance of the powder is unpredictable, it is better not to use it.
Over the years, I have seen this in IMR 3031, 4064, 4320 and 4350. Also in Higginsons old #44.
Either put it in a pile in a safe place and burn it or sprinkle it on soil around plants you want to make greener.
Regards, Dave.
Because the affect this deterioration has on the performance of the powder is unpredictable, it is better not to use it.
Over the years, I have seen this in IMR 3031, 4064, 4320 and 4350. Also in Higginsons old #44.
Either put it in a pile in a safe place and burn it or sprinkle it on soil around plants you want to make greener.
Regards, Dave.
Hey Eagleye, I bought quite a few lbs of #44N from a friend many years ago. Burned close to 3031 and for cast bullets was a great powder at about $4/lb. Sorry it's all gone but had a lot of fun burning it up. It was from Higginsons and came in a heavy cardboard container, fond memories forgot about it till you mentioned it.
Talk to your trader....perhaps he had no idea of powder condition, and will make it right.
I know I would make it right if it happened to be me that traded goods that were unusable.
Regards, Dave.
Ya for my new container of Unique, Bullseye, and HS6 He'd put an MO in the mail for $50. That might approach getting me one can of 3031 by the time I'm taxed, fuel etc. Lets remember this was a trade so no tax was paid. He got his from an uncles cellar for free. I paid the pound price + tax for new powder, so if he divides his 20$ shipping by 3 he's not bad. If I look at what it cost me to buy the 3 by the time tax, travel (+my $25 to ship to him) and all is in to now MAYBE get one pound. Why do I feel on the short end?
By coincidence the only powder that I have ever had go bad was also IMR3031.
I still have some original war surplus H4831 and it is in perfect condition. I recently did a velocity test with it and it performed exactly like it did after WW2.
I still have some original war surplus H4831 and it is in perfect condition. I recently did a velocity test with it and it performed exactly like it did after WW2.
- Location
- West Quebec
I've never seen this but now know what to do if I come upon some.. TKS
TargetAcquired
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
Raw deal. Give the guy the benefit of the doubt and ask if he'll true you up.
I bought a surplus of 4198 in old 1lb metal tins, I was very wary of the same problem, but the price was so good I stabbed at it anyway. They were all never opened, nice shiny walls inside. What a relief.
I bought a surplus of 4198 in old 1lb metal tins, I was very wary of the same problem, but the price was so good I stabbed at it anyway. They were all never opened, nice shiny walls inside. What a relief.
I had a couple cans of ammomart #44 that had some red dust in the can. When I cut the cardboard can open I discovered the metal lid was rusty. I convinced myself this was the cause of the red dust and used the powder with no ill effects. I wouldn't suggest anyone else do this.
Finally! One guy with a lick of common sense around here, though I fear it will not rub off on the masses...
Other than I'm told when it breaks down it doesn't get possibly weaker. It's actually more prone to pressure issues. Bought strictly for a vintage 405.
Try it out. Thanks no.
The gent was pmd the link to this so as he could see more than my opinion. He's been online since. Just won't respond
Try it out. Thanks no.
The gent was pmd the link to this so as he could see more than my opinion. He's been online since. Just won't respond
Sherlock Gnomes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- St.Catharines
nahhh I love the smell of Hoppes no 9 .. but it does crap for cleaning.. G96 has a nice smell too but actually works... Holy thread derailment... Rust powder bad.... never had this happen but gooing home to check my 3031.... just as a guideline what is the shelf life of 3031 if it is prone to this? or is it more a conditions of storage problem?
There was another powder from Higginson's that went bad as well. It was marketed as 47N - OEM4350 and the suggested load data was for N160. It was a very good powder. I loved it in my 338-06. 62.5 grn of it gave 2700 fps with a 225 spire point and magnum primers without any pressure signs at all.
I had 14 pounds of it and managed to use about 8 pounds of it before it went bad. It was an easy powder to run through a powder measure as well. Roughly the same size granules as R22.
It came in 7 pound bags, inside of cardboard boxes. In this case, unlike the #44 powder, it turned bad from one week to the next. It started clumping and sweating. No bad scent, just clumping and sweating. Eagleeye had some do exactly the same thing. That doesn't mean that all of it is bad though. I recently picked up 3 pounds of it at a gun show that had been taken out of the original shipping bag and put into tin containers. It's fine. Maybe the plastic bag caused the deterioration to accelerate???
Here is something else to be careful with. Powder that has been in long term storage will sometimes clump. Especially Ball and fine extruded powders. Not sure why it happens but it does. After my experience with 47N, I have always checked my powder before pouring it into the measure silo. I have found several powders with small clumps. It smells good and with a little shake the clumps easily separate into individual granules. It still shoots consistently to the previous handloads without any signs of pressures or low power loads. Ganderite can likely explain this. I think it is just the graphite or whatever coating on the powder isn't consistent.
I have cans of powder marked 4064, 3031, 450 etc with a DuPont logo on them. Nothing else. No H or IMR or any other prefix. Luckily I have old manuals that list these powders. I know some of them are pre WWII. They are still fine and I am finally getting around to finishing off the usable quantities I have left.
I have a habit of blending different lots of the same powder designation. Especially if I can't get an 8 pound keg. Often a dealer or at a gun show several one pound cans of a certain powder I have an affinity for like IMR 7828 or W760 etc will be available at reasonable prices. Not recently though. I dump all of it into a glass bowl and mix it together then put it into a cleaned out 4 litre laundry soap jug. I mark it well and if possible stick an old label on the jug. I have found over the years of doing this that when a jug gets to the point where there isn't enough powder for the season or project I just add it to the next jug and shake it all together, this leaves me with an extremely consistent powder batch that is almost if not identical to the previous batch. No more checking results when a new lot number of powder is purchased.
By the way, laundry soap jugs are excellent containers for bulk powders. Some of them come with a large opening with a removable pour spout. These are the best for my purposes. Easy to fill and can be poured directly from the jug into a powder measure without a funnel.
I had 14 pounds of it and managed to use about 8 pounds of it before it went bad. It was an easy powder to run through a powder measure as well. Roughly the same size granules as R22.
It came in 7 pound bags, inside of cardboard boxes. In this case, unlike the #44 powder, it turned bad from one week to the next. It started clumping and sweating. No bad scent, just clumping and sweating. Eagleeye had some do exactly the same thing. That doesn't mean that all of it is bad though. I recently picked up 3 pounds of it at a gun show that had been taken out of the original shipping bag and put into tin containers. It's fine. Maybe the plastic bag caused the deterioration to accelerate???
Here is something else to be careful with. Powder that has been in long term storage will sometimes clump. Especially Ball and fine extruded powders. Not sure why it happens but it does. After my experience with 47N, I have always checked my powder before pouring it into the measure silo. I have found several powders with small clumps. It smells good and with a little shake the clumps easily separate into individual granules. It still shoots consistently to the previous handloads without any signs of pressures or low power loads. Ganderite can likely explain this. I think it is just the graphite or whatever coating on the powder isn't consistent.
I have cans of powder marked 4064, 3031, 450 etc with a DuPont logo on them. Nothing else. No H or IMR or any other prefix. Luckily I have old manuals that list these powders. I know some of them are pre WWII. They are still fine and I am finally getting around to finishing off the usable quantities I have left.
I have a habit of blending different lots of the same powder designation. Especially if I can't get an 8 pound keg. Often a dealer or at a gun show several one pound cans of a certain powder I have an affinity for like IMR 7828 or W760 etc will be available at reasonable prices. Not recently though. I dump all of it into a glass bowl and mix it together then put it into a cleaned out 4 litre laundry soap jug. I mark it well and if possible stick an old label on the jug. I have found over the years of doing this that when a jug gets to the point where there isn't enough powder for the season or project I just add it to the next jug and shake it all together, this leaves me with an extremely consistent powder batch that is almost if not identical to the previous batch. No more checking results when a new lot number of powder is purchased.
By the way, laundry soap jugs are excellent containers for bulk powders. Some of them come with a large opening with a removable pour spout. These are the best for my purposes. Easy to fill and can be poured directly from the jug into a powder measure without a funnel.
