Savage 12 F/TR Adventures.

M

msg.drew

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For some of you that followed my 700 SPS Tactial adventures in the reloading forum... I have moved on to a "precision" type rifle. The Savage 12 F/TR is a 308 and has a 30" barrel. I have been playing around with 155 A-Max and 155 Nosler Custom Competition bullets. I am waiting to get my hands on some Varget powder I have some on order. According to an artical by Team Savage they have shot some 3/4" 3 Shot groups at 500 yards with a specific Varget load I hope to try out.
I have lots of chrony data for those who are interested about what kind of velocity you can get from a 30 inch pipe. First load I tested out at 100 yards a few weeks ago to get the scope sighted in averaged 2950 FPS

Just to clarify up until now every rifle and shotgun that I had ever bought had been a Remington and I am pretty happy I switched to Savage its as close to a custom out of the box rifle you can find.

This weekend I went out and shot at 300 yards for a slight bit of challange.

Here are few groups I shot, I am not a match shooter just a weekend plinker not to shabby I think... in a few weeks the beans will be off the fields and I can push the range of the gun out to 600 and 800 should be fun...

This group I am not calling official because the groups I was shooting where all 5 shot groups but you can tell based on the fact is the only group I shot that was 1MOA or greater the two shots way far away where pure shooter error not the rifles fault that being said there is a marvelous 3 shot group. .166 MOA at 300 Yards or approx .5" The rifle is got the stuff and the shooters got potential just needs practice.
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Few typical groups I shot all 1MOA or under.
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This is my offical tightest group of the day .71MOA at 300 yards.
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Chrony data my handloads are pretty consistant...

2840 2844 2847 2850 2821 2826 2813 2811 2817 2851 2859 2857 2875 2846 2878 2910 2891 2848 2858 2884 2856 2856 2846 2851 2862 2845 2856 2862 2860 2865 2869 2850 2858 2879 2868 2858 2882 2900 2885 Average 2857.282
 
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Very nice shooting. What were your max speeds with the 155's? I started playing with some 155.5g bergers and up 46.8g of varget and getting around 3020-3030 fps with my 29" barrel in my savage model 12.
 
I dont consider myself a good shot yet :)... I spent all the money on my equiptment. My bench and chair are bit sketchy because they have to be portable. Plywood and princess auto saw horses :) cheap and some what effective.

I am trying to figure out why velocities are so much slower in my second batch of reloads...

This was from the first set of reloads I did and my first time shooting the rifle at 100 yards.
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2941
2958
2936
2953
2955
2949
2952
2943
2951
2934
Average 2947.2

I am using reloader 15 but team savage also tested that powder and it didn't yeild as good results as I am getting they swear by varget.

My Best 3 shot group at 100 during the sight in process was 0.267 Inches
My Best 5 shot group at 100 during the sight in process was .577 Inches ​
 
Good shooting. !!
Just to give you some feedback (thanks for your posting, I am interested in other peoples F/tr feedback), I was out today, shooting at 400 Meters.My scope is a Millett LRS-1.(cheap) I have had 3 seperate 3 shot groups at 400 yards UNDER 1 INCH. ( 1 of the 3 shot groups is under half an inch, at 400 meters) However, when shooting 5 shots, at 400 yards, it always seems to open up to 2 - 2.5 inches. I am using 168gr Berger Vld and 45.5gr Varget. (pics to follow).
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I shot a 1 ten shot group, it was 2 3/4 inches . As far as I am concerned this is exceptional for a factory rifle. It really showed me that my 3 shot groups are not an accurate picture of the true accuracy of the gun (or me) but it is definitely a sub-moa gun, and I definitely believe the team savage guys were able to shoot a 500 yard 3 shot group 3/4 inch.
I think the next thing to do for consistancy get this thing bedded!
Again, thanks for your post, its nice to hear how other people are doing with their F/TRs.
 
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You realize this rifle comes tripple pillar bedded from the factory? I dont know if glass bedding it will improve it or not can't hurt probally.

One thing I picked up here from another shooter is get a cheap video camera and put it down range I dont know if this is something you would want to do at a public range but mine is private so you can see which shots in the 5 shot sequence go out 2-2.5" at your 400 meters. Maybe its more shooter error then rifle and equiptment problems.

At 400 yards 2" groups are 1/2 moa thats pretty darn good. According to my artical from team savage they had best luck with 155 Sierra bullets that was the bullet they pulled off a 3 shot group at 500 yards that measured .88"
 
Maybe its more shooter error then rifle and equiptment problems.
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Some of my groups, I called the pull to the left or right befor I was able to see the hole, it was definitely shooter error.
You realize this rifle comes tripple pillar bedded from the factory? I dont know if glass bedding it will improve it or not can't hurt probally.
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Yeah, apparently, it is till a good idea to get it bedded.
According to my artical from team savage they had best luck with 155 Sierra bullets that was the bullet they pulled off a 3 shot group at 500 yards that measured .88"
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Thats good to hear, I have a brand new unopened box of 500 of the 155 sierras.
 
There are a few different versions of the Sierra 155's they don't specify if they used the normal ones or the special Palma bullets.

I won't bed anything till I get a different stock, I'd really like to get the adjustable one that comes with the Savage Palma rifle. Other then that I am thinking of having one made here in canada that is adjustable like that only composite.

I am still struggling to get a good aligment to the scope with that stupid cheek piece.
 
Drew, fyi, the Palma stock screw spacing is different from the F/TR stock, I already looked into this for myself. Locally there are at least seven people including myself shoot the F/tr and one Palma. So far only one person is not happy with accuracy and we have noticed a large variation in throats. The Savage website has lots of information about how to tune your rifle for the best accuracy and I believe they are still useing the old Palma #2155 Sierra bullet. Before bedding I would try there tuning tips. John
 
shotgunjoe said:
Drew, fyi, the Palma stock screw spacing is different from the F/TR stock, I already looked into this for myself. Locally there are at least seven people including myself shoot the F/tr and one Palma. So far only one person is not happy with accuracy and we have noticed a large variation in throats. The Savage website has lots of information about how to tune your rifle for the best accuracy and I believe they are still useing the old Palma #2155 Sierra bullet. Before bedding I would try there tuning tips. John
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I was thinking of taking the saw to this stock and adding the cheek piece part to the stock and putting an adjustable butt simmilar to palma gun but the stock on the F/tr isnt realy beefy enough and designed right to allow for these mods it needs more of a grip then it has.

I am waiting for roberston composites to get back to me about my stock enquiry... I need to sell a bit more gear before I can get one of there stocks.
 
BCBRAD said:
What is the expected barrel life , in 308Win?
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A long time... there really isn't an exact answer. Depends on many things... hardness of the bullets, speed, powder charge and other variables like barrel material and how its made and treated.

For example if you use solid lead bullets it would last dramatically longer then then lets say jacketed or a brass solids.

I have guns that are older then me with the original barrel. Barrel life in my opinion is irrelavant because by the time is worn out you will have spend thousands of dollars on the ammo to wear it out.

Some calibers are more prone to wearing out the barrel quicker then other mainly very fast wildcats... and when we say wear out he barrel its normally throat errorsion that people are talking about. I wears down the rifleing very close to the chamber due to heat and pressure.

I am a bit more curious how the 2900-3000FPS velocity will affect this barrel my previous 308 was much slower due to the fact it was 10 inchs shorter.
 
Velocity is not necessarily the make or break it factor in barrel life, it is how hot you get the barrel when shooting. There are many TR and palma rifles out there with 6000+ rounds and still going, all of which are sending them out at 3000fps+-
 
Budweiser360 said:
Velocity is not necessarily the make or break it factor in barrel life, it is how hot you get the barrel when shooting. There are many TR and palma rifles out there with 6000+ rounds and still going, all of which are sending them out at 3000fps+-
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I just kind of chuckel to myself everytime I see a barrel life question :p I have never worn out a barrel yet
 
BCBRAD said:
i guess the proper question would be when does accuracy begin to suffer
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We have a winner!!! That is something match shooters try real hard to figure out cause it can have some real exciting affects on our scores.

The answer really depends on what accuracy level you need.

A tactical rifle smacking 'La Rues' out to 600yds will have a much more generous lifespan then a F TR rifle trying to keep all the shots in a 1/2 min bull at 1000yds.

If you start off with a true 1/4 min 308W, I would expect to see a drop in mechanical accuracy testing at 200 or 300yds starting as early as 1000/1500rds. Now shooting in the high 2's and mid 3's.

The best life of any match barrel is in the first 1000rds. With some new F Open options, 500rds and you can start to see the gilt edge accuracy lost.

Here it will stay steady for around another 1000/1500rds when groups are going to increase to the 4's and 5's (or 1/2 min) range. For F TR, this barrel is now ready for a set back or rebarrel.

With this estimate, an F TR rifle can maintain V bull accuracy almost 4 times longer then a barrel eating F Open rig.

As you approach 5000rds, MOA is pretty much where I would expect the average accuracy to now be. Setting back a barrel with this many rds is not a very good option as the steel itself has been damaged and you would need to go a very long ways to get steel with decent strength.

Palma shooters have a MOA V bull and a 2 MOA 5 or 10 ring (or is it 1.5MOA?). an MOA rig is plenty good for their needs so can keep on sending lead downrange but will likely look at a replacement because somewhere soon, there will not be anymore rifling for quite a long ways and flyers will start.

This is an approximation and there are so many variables that can affect your result but from my experience, this is about the ballpark.

One area that can happen as a barrel wears is the loss of vertical control. As the barrel wears, the leade rifling erodes getting rougher and thinner. At some point, rifling engraving no longer becomes concentric and this might be a cause of some vertical issues. This is purely a SWAG but seeing the throats of worn barrels and their egg shape, kind of makes you wonder.

Jerry
 
I love my Model 10, and it kills me to have to sell it because of an emerging financial crisis at home... the 12's seem to outshoot it by just a hair, but both the 10 and the 12 are well worth the money.

-M
 
My local gun shop has a Mod 12 F/TR in 308win, I am not considering a 6mmBR as I may want to shoot a moose, the 6.5x284 interests me but reading of issues with barrel life, the 308 introduces more variables out at 1000yds as the other two. I use a 168gr TSX-BT in my sako finnlight 30-06 with good results @2885fps MV. what should I do?
 
I'd reccomend going and trying to pick up a mod 12 and see if you can carry it around for more then 5 min without getting tired.
Have you ever tried walking thru a bush with a 30" barreled gun that over all is about 50" long?
There is a reason most hunting guns are 22 or 24" long max :)

I'll go weigh my gun later but it might break the scale :)

Something from savages tactical line might be a bit more suited to hunting something with a 24" barrel and not so heavy.

Where I am in Ontario we can't use high powered rifles for hunting in my WMU but when I am shooting the 12 f/tr I think to my self man this would be to easy like shooting fish in a barrel. With a shotgun it gives you a challange.

Only way I can see the 12 f/tr being an effective hunting gun is to setup somewhere that you can see about 360 degrees around and for a very far way and wait.
 
The 12 F/tr is 16lbs in the configuration I have it in. It also does not have sling studs installed so as a hunting gun you would allways be carrying it around.

My 700 varimint gun came in at 13.5lbs which feels like a light weight sporter compared to the 12 F/tr
 
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