Savage 210F Sniper shotgun (targets are up !!!)

Just to get into the frey......16.5".

My mossberg SSi-one (argueably the most accurate slug gun made....heavy barrel) will print 2-2.5" @ 100 with factory ammo. Be interesting to see what happens.

I can tell you one thing though, I would definitely look into hand loading for that job. A 300 gr slug at 1700 FPS just ain't gonna cut it at 300m.

Big difference between hitting a deer, and killing a deer.

Ryan
 
Hello Arch1965,
My guess is 28+ inches at 300m. Have you ever tried those wasp waisted, 385 grain sabot slugs that Winchester makes. They look like a pellet you would use in a 177 cal airgun but are surrounded by a two piece sabot. If I remember correctly they are pretty fast for a shotgun, somewhere around 1900fps at the muzzle.
Good luck.
Greg

Good luck
 
Sluggin

Hi, I'm sitting here looking at my ammo that arrived today. Looks mean enough.

The Winchester SSP123 are 3" @ 2000FPS @ 385 grain. It is definately going to be interesting, not getting my hopes up to much though. They have more fps than a 45-70 (Ruger #1 and #3) 350 grain loaded to near maximum and fellows shoot come crazy distances with those. I don't think I'm that crazy :confused: .

Arch:)
 
I HATE to say it....but it ain't gonna work for your deer.

I spent the better paart of last night playing with ballistics programs, etc. trying to figure out the feasability of this.....and there's just TOOOOO much going against you.

Assuming the gun turns out to be MOA accurate (unlikely) you have three major problems.

1. the drop at 300m is going to be somewhere around 1" per meter.
If you guess 300, and he's at 315....you miss.
2. Energy. I cant see the slug carrying enough energy at 300m to kill the deer. Wound-maybe.......but then you'll never get the deer.
3. Heres the big one: That slug, at that velocity, is only gona stay supersonic for about 115 yds. What does this mean? The deer is gonna hear the shot before the slug gets there. Kinda like "jumping a bowstring". but on a larger scale. As close as I can figure, the deer will have about a 2.5 second warning....and if he's skittish, that's more than enough.


All that said, I do have a solution for you. I used this to take an elusive monster buck (same scenario as yours....three years of 200 yd opportunities....but I was hunting with a BOW! And this deer was tooooooo smart)

Here's the secret: Don't try and get to the buck...bring him to you.
If he's the dominant male (and I'm assuming he is) this will bring him in.
Before sun-up I put 5 turkey decoys (a jake and 4 hens) in the field 35 yds from my stand (as confidence decoys). I then put a lifesize doe archery target (from crappy tire) 10 yds from my stand at the edge of the timber line, looking at the turkeys. I then proceeded to cluck and purr like nobodys business. Long story short: He stepped out at 150+ M, the turkey calls got his attention, and it didn't take him long before he noticed the pretty girl at the timber line. He practically RAN to claim that doe. Needless to say, he didn't make it.

Hope this helps!

Ryan
 
oh I wouldn't take that shot on a deer but it would be awesome on the G-hogs and video it!!


Jamie Barkwell
 
Nice looking gun and definitely lots of fun to shoot 300 yards.........at paper.

Taking a shot at a deer at the range is foolish. Might you kill him...yes. Might you wound him and lose him....yes. The animals we hunt deserve more than that.

I assume you are in a shotgun only area, if not there are much better choices of guns.

Just my opinion.
 
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Wrong Way said:
2. Energy. I cant see the slug carrying enough energy at 300m to kill the deer. Wound-maybe.......but then you'll never get the deer.
Click to expand...
I disagree, and the calculator (I emphasize "calculator", since I have no real-world experience with the slug gun or load in question) that I used came up with more than adequate numbers (1135 ft/lbs) at 300 metres. This was calculated with a BC of 0.212, which I stole from a 45-70 info sheet on winchester.com for a similar size/shape bullet traveling at similar velocities (this one; Winchester 45-70 300gr Supreme Partition Gold). Yes, the drop at that range will be enormous, but as long as arch's groups are repeatable (ie; within the volleyball-size vital zone @ 300m), the slug will have more than enough energy and velocity left to drop that buck in his tracks. Keep in mind that we're talking rough/approximate figures here, the reason I chose that particular 45-70 load is for rough comparison & simulation purposes only.

Just for posterity, here's the load that I personally would use if I were shooting at a deer 300m away; Winchester 30-06 180gr Accubond CT
Wrong Way said:
3. Heres the big one: That slug, at that velocity, is only gona stay supersonic for about 115 yds. What does this mean? The deer is gonna hear the shot before the slug gets there. Kinda like "jumping a bowstring". but on a larger scale. As close as I can figure, the deer will have about a 2.5 second warning....and if he's skittish, that's more than enough.
Click to expand...
This is a good point, but I disagree again, the calculator I used spit out 1152fps at 300m. This works out to 785mph, which is about 25mph over the speed of sound at sea level. If he's up in the mountains, that slug will definetely still be supersonic at 300m. Granted, I'm arguing based on theoretical, calculated numbers that don't take into account all the variables involved (not to mention the fact that I very well may be missing something and my numbers are out to lunch :rolleyes:). Regardless, I still think he's got a fighting chance, even with the odds stacked against him. It'll be interesting to see the range test results, that's for sure :D
 
good luck....id say you would be lucky to keep 3 shot groups on paper at that distance...I have had nothing but trouble with SSP123 rounds...and its not just me I have met 3-4 other people who thought that there was something wrong with their gun after trying that stuff.

sweet gun by the way
 
poweredbybeer said:
I disagree, and the calculator (I emphasize "calculator", since I have no real-world experience with the slug gun or load in question) that I used came up with more than adequate numbers (1135 ft/lbs) at 300 metres. This was calculated with a BC of 0.212, which I stole from a 45-70 info sheet on winchester.com for a similar size/shape bullet traveling at similar velocities (this one; Winchester 45-70 300gr Supreme Partition Gold). Yes, the drop at that range will be enormous, but as long as arch's groups are repeatable (ie; within the volleyball-size vital zone @ 300m), the slug will have more than enough energy and velocity left to drop that buck in his tracks. Keep in mind that we're talking rough/approximate figures here, the reason I chose that particular 45-70 load is for rough comparison & simulation purposes only.

Just for posterity, here's the load that I personally would use if I were shooting at a deer 300m away; Winchester 30-06 180gr Accubond CT

This is a good point, but I disagree again, the calculator I used spit out 1152fps at 300m. This works out to 785mph, which is about 25mph over the speed of sound at sea level. If he's up in the mountains, that slug will definetely still be supersonic at 300m. Granted, I'm arguing based on theoretical, calculated numbers that don't take into account all the variables involved (not to mention the fact that I very well may be missing something and my numbers are out to lunch :rolleyes:). Regardless, I still think he's got a fighting chance, even with the odds stacked against him. It'll be interesting to see the range test results, that's for sure :D
Click to expand...


Which calculator are you using? I put it in all three of my ballistics programs.....all came out pretty much the same.

45/70? Not really a good comaparison ballistics wise. If your program uses existing carts, throw in a .577 snider. That would be way closer.

Hows this for interesting? My SSi-One, shooting winchester platinum tips: Pull the trigger, hear the boom, wait a sec, here the hit....at 100.

Heres the big question. Is it ethical to take a shot unless your reasonably certain you can have a clean, humane kill?

I still say go for the decoys....works for me (4X)

Ryan
 
Wrong Way said:
Which calculator are you using? I put it in all three of my ballistics programs.....all came out pretty much the same.
Click to expand...
These ones;
BigGameInfo Ballistics Calculator
Handloads.com Ballistics Calc
Both come up with very similar numbers. I punched in .50 cal in the BigGameInfo calculator, simply because I don't know the diameter of the slug in question (I do know that it's a sabot slug, so it's definetely smaller than 0.729", nominal 12 guage bore size equivalent).

I'm not contesting your experience with 12 ga. slugs, but the numbers make me doubt that it's possible for that particular load to be traveling slow enough for you to hear the blast and then the hit at 100 yards. The info sheet on winchester's website shows that particular slug as having a 1700 fps MV and traveling 1420 fps at 100 yards (Winchester Platinum Tip Hollowpoint slug, 400gr). 1420 fps is 1.3 times the speed of sound at sea level, and the bullet's time of flight is around 0.2 seconds at that range. Again though, I'm not calling you a liar, I mean you were there and I sure as hell wasn't, but I'm thinkin' you were hearing something else :confused:
Wrong Way said:
Heres the big question. Is it ethical to take a shot unless your reasonably certain you can have a clean, humane kill?
Click to expand...
This is definetely the big question, unfortunately it's up to arch1965 in this case, since he'll be the one taking the shot. If he does end up wounding the buck, then it's on his conscience, not yours or mine. He'll have to face the consequences of his actions in that case (which would be finding the blood trail, tracking the wounded buck for what could end up being a very long distance, and then trying to make a clean shot the 2nd time). I personally wouldn't make that kind of shot with that particular firearm, simply because I have no experience shooting slug guns at 300 metres. Give me my 30-06 though, and I'll feel a lot better about it :D Point taken though ;)
 
Sluggin

Hmmm... points to ponder. Thanks everyone for their input and I'll have the results of the grouping shoot next Friday. In case anyone was wondering, I do not take longshots unless I'm certain of a successful hit. Just to ease your minds a little. :rolleyes:
 
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