- Location
- calgaryish
lots of people are very happy with marlin 795's and r a really good price.
Savage Edge .308 First Outing = Weak *Pics*
- Thread starter ridgearms
- Start date
Last weekend was my first go with my Savage Axis (Edge was the previous version) in 223. I started off with groups that looked similar to yours. I spent a lot of time focusing on the trigger pull and managed with no modifications to get the final groups to about 1.5" at 100yards. This is using the cheapest American Eagle ammo that could be found. I would think with reloading will tighten this up some more. I also picked up a snap cap to allow for multiple trigger pulls on this gun to hopefully loosen up the pull (very heavy).
After the range trip, when working with the snap cap at home I noticed the same thing that the front end of my stock was very flexible side to side. I have a bipod on mine and any significant pressure on the cheek piece would make the barrel move side to side and touch the stock. As others have mentioned, I am planning on sand bagging on the next trip closer to the magazine as this is also where the stock recoil lug is mounted (directly underneath the receiver end of the barrel locking nut).
Anyway, I do not expect much better precision out of my rifle until I start reloading since the ammo that I purchased is 55gr and I have 1 in 9 twist that should be using something closer to 70 grain depending on length of bullet. Point being that you might have to look into your twist rate to see if the ammo you are using is matched to your rifle.
My suggestion is work on the trigger pull first. Best of luck.
After the range trip, when working with the snap cap at home I noticed the same thing that the front end of my stock was very flexible side to side. I have a bipod on mine and any significant pressure on the cheek piece would make the barrel move side to side and touch the stock. As others have mentioned, I am planning on sand bagging on the next trip closer to the magazine as this is also where the stock recoil lug is mounted (directly underneath the receiver end of the barrel locking nut).
Anyway, I do not expect much better precision out of my rifle until I start reloading since the ammo that I purchased is 55gr and I have 1 in 9 twist that should be using something closer to 70 grain depending on length of bullet. Point being that you might have to look into your twist rate to see if the ammo you are using is matched to your rifle.
My suggestion is work on the trigger pull first. Best of luck.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
1) Better ammo
2) Better rest
3) Better technique
Dry firing really helps with trigger control and breathing. No one gets good overnight...keep working at it.
2) Better rest
3) Better technique
Dry firing really helps with trigger control and breathing. No one gets good overnight...keep working at it.
This is from your post.
"A competition shooter I met previously checked out my groupings and rifle and said it should shoot better than that. He took a business card and folded it then slid it under the end of the barrel and shot some 150 gr handloads he had. His group was about 1.5 inch."
You should have looked no further for help than this gentleman. As a competetive shooter he knew a sporting weight rifle barrel should have tension on the front of it. Thus, he folded up a card to put the desired tension on the barrel. He then proved there was nothing wrong with the rifle, as a five shot 1 1/2 inch group is very good for a run of the mill low priced sporting rifle.
It's a shame you didn't give him five of your factory ammunition cartridges to try. He proved the rifle is OK and if your ammunitin would have been satisfactory, which I think they will be, it would leave only you, the new shooter, as the problem.
I think it has been pointed out that your grouping is about normal for a new shooter.
You asked about taking out the card he put in. Why in the world would you take it out? A good shooter put it in to improve the rifle and that is exactly what he proved. What you should do is carefully judge how much pressure is requird to raise the barrel from this card. You could then put some type of permanent block under the barrel, that would end up with about the same amount of pressure.
I have often said on these threads that shooters of a by gone age, who were more aware of the qualities of an accurate rifle than most shooters of today seem to be, would tension their sporting barrels so as it took about six pounds to pull the barrel from the block on the stock.
In Warren Page's book, "The Accurate Rifle," he refers to the pressure required to lift the barrel from the stock as, "--enough to require significant effort to seperate barrel fom forestock tip."
This is for standard weight barrels. For the super heavy,stiff target barrels used in some types of bench rest and long range shooting, they free floated them.
"A competition shooter I met previously checked out my groupings and rifle and said it should shoot better than that. He took a business card and folded it then slid it under the end of the barrel and shot some 150 gr handloads he had. His group was about 1.5 inch."
You should have looked no further for help than this gentleman. As a competetive shooter he knew a sporting weight rifle barrel should have tension on the front of it. Thus, he folded up a card to put the desired tension on the barrel. He then proved there was nothing wrong with the rifle, as a five shot 1 1/2 inch group is very good for a run of the mill low priced sporting rifle.
It's a shame you didn't give him five of your factory ammunition cartridges to try. He proved the rifle is OK and if your ammunitin would have been satisfactory, which I think they will be, it would leave only you, the new shooter, as the problem.
I think it has been pointed out that your grouping is about normal for a new shooter.
You asked about taking out the card he put in. Why in the world would you take it out? A good shooter put it in to improve the rifle and that is exactly what he proved. What you should do is carefully judge how much pressure is requird to raise the barrel from this card. You could then put some type of permanent block under the barrel, that would end up with about the same amount of pressure.
I have often said on these threads that shooters of a by gone age, who were more aware of the qualities of an accurate rifle than most shooters of today seem to be, would tension their sporting barrels so as it took about six pounds to pull the barrel from the block on the stock.
In Warren Page's book, "The Accurate Rifle," he refers to the pressure required to lift the barrel from the stock as, "--enough to require significant effort to seperate barrel fom forestock tip."
This is for standard weight barrels. For the super heavy,stiff target barrels used in some types of bench rest and long range shooting, they free floated them.
h4831. I understood that it was a fine rifle after the competition shooter shot it. Since I am new I would like to try the various methods suggested here. I can always go back to the card or something more permanent at any time. Thanks for your suggestions.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, tod!
First off, the load I used on that occasion was a standard load that I keep in my kit precisely for such purposes: it was a Federal case (neck turned), loaded with 45.5 Varget and a 147 full metal jacket military bullet. It is actually a very mild load, but it is a good control load for such things as getting a basic scope zero and testing the potential of a new rifle. FYI, the Avatar photo I use is a target shot with that load out of a tight .3065 Donnelly barrel that was given a new lease on life.
My diagnosis of this situation was that the rifle had potential, but because of the floppy forend and the heavy bullets (which increased barrel whip and made the floppy forend problem worse), we couldn't see it. Therefore, I suggested trying lighter bullets and using a business card under the forend.
It made a huge difference, just as I expected. Therefore, I recommended that he try factory 150s with the business card and follow that by trying a group of factory 150s without the business card. I predict right now that the business card is the main factor. I told him that his likely best options are to a) hog out the forend so much that the barrel can never touch it, no matter how much whip; b) stiffen the forend with a piece of aluminum rod or arrow shaft or fishing rod expoxied through the length; or c) bed in a permanent bedding pad.
In the end, I said it's relatively easy to make a permanent forend pressure point but the first step is to determine if it is needed.
I'm hopeful that he'll be able to get this thing shooting tiny groups in no time.
Another note: a fair amount has been made out of the fact that this fine young man is a new shooter and needs to work on his technique. This is undoubtedly true, to a certain extent. However, I watched him and he's got the fundamentals right. What's more, I let him have a crack with a really ugly P-14 of mine, with my Central Sight, at the 200 metre gong. He managed to nail it after a couple of tries and a bit of coaching, so he's got a disciplined eye and a steady hold. This is yet another reason why I'm hopeful that he'll be able to get this new Savage shooting really well with a bit of tweaking and good load choices.
And actually, there were two competitive shooters helping him: myself and my mentor Martin.
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Thanks for the vote of confidence, tod!
First off, the load I used on that occasion was a standard load that I keep in my kit precisely for such purposes: it was a Federal case (neck turned), loaded with 45.5 Varget and a 147 full metal jacket military bullet. It is actually a very mild load, but it is a good control load for such things as getting a basic scope zero and testing the potential of a new rifle. FYI, the Avatar photo I use is a target shot with that load out of a tight .3065 Donnelly barrel that was given a new lease on life.
My diagnosis of this situation was that the rifle had potential, but because of the floppy forend and the heavy bullets (which increased barrel whip and made the floppy forend problem worse), we couldn't see it. Therefore, I suggested trying lighter bullets and using a business card under the forend.
It made a huge difference, just as I expected. Therefore, I recommended that he try factory 150s with the business card and follow that by trying a group of factory 150s without the business card. I predict right now that the business card is the main factor. I told him that his likely best options are to a) hog out the forend so much that the barrel can never touch it, no matter how much whip; b) stiffen the forend with a piece of aluminum rod or arrow shaft or fishing rod expoxied through the length; or c) bed in a permanent bedding pad.
In the end, I said it's relatively easy to make a permanent forend pressure point but the first step is to determine if it is needed.
I'm hopeful that he'll be able to get this thing shooting tiny groups in no time.
Another note: a fair amount has been made out of the fact that this fine young man is a new shooter and needs to work on his technique. This is undoubtedly true, to a certain extent. However, I watched him and he's got the fundamentals right. What's more, I let him have a crack with a really ugly P-14 of mine, with my Central Sight, at the 200 metre gong. He managed to nail it after a couple of tries and a bit of coaching, so he's got a disciplined eye and a steady hold. This is yet another reason why I'm hopeful that he'll be able to get this new Savage shooting really well with a bit of tweaking and good load choices.
And actually, there were two competitive shooters helping him: myself and my mentor Martin.
Checkmate...
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Some rifles like a bit of upward pressure from the forend. Seems counter-intuituve, but some rifles really like it. Others absolutely hate it. Doesn't hurt to try it and it see if it works. Can always lose the tip pressure later if it doesn't work for you.
