Savage MkII BV vs Anschutz Match 64- Range Report 2011-01

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rimfiremac

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Lets start the new year off right with some interesting fun...

What follows is a story of triumph and disappointment. With some spare time I took my trusty Savage Mark II BV out to the range, hoping it would be humbled by a vintage Anschutz Match 64. Both rifles are bone stock save for trigger tinkering. Both were wearing scopes set at 12x for the duration of the test.

My test protocol was very amateur: three boxes of ammo, one improvised rest, a 100 yard grouping target (disregard the '20 yards' print on the targets), and a 200 yard target for mid-range reference. I figured that I’d shoot to compare relative performance, as opposed to absolute performance, so I chose to fire ten fouling shots of each brand without cleaning before shooting groups with the brand, and shot the same sequence of ammo in each rifle. Both rifles were shot off an improvised rest in the same body position on the bench. I'd run half a box thru one rifle, then finish the box off with the other.

For ammo selection, I started with Eley sport as a low end, found a box of Laupa Super Club for ‘mid range’ though it’s not a heck of a lot better than Sport, and splurged and topped off the spectrum with RWS R50, which I had never tried before. Velocities were not recorded.

For group measuring, I measured in two sets- the best five shots and also the best four shots per group to provide a bit of a filter for ‘pilot error’ if it was present. In the results, the groups are noted as ‘best four over best five’ in inches. I’ve taken measurements to three sigfigs, but the ‘eyeball error’ is likely 20 thou or so, so measurements are ‘thereabouts’, officially. From my perspective, it's dandy that a rifle will put four into a sub-minute group, but if it tosses the fifth with a curve, the best it can claim is the worst accuracy observed. In my opinion a rifle ammo combination is not 'MOA accurate' if it prints two inches on Monday Wednesdays and Fridays, in any caliber.

After an hour and a bit of plinking away I headed down range to check out the results- while I was expecting the 64 to outperform the BV by a significant margin, the results told a less exciting story:

Savage:

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Eley Sport: 0.752/1.63, 0.852/1.34 inches
Lapua Super Club : 0.675/1.47 inches, second group not worthy of measurement.
RWS R50: 0.683/1.21, 0.577/1.00 inches

Anschutz:

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Eley Sport: 1.05/ 1.40, 0.858/1.02 inches
Lapua Super Club : 0.874/1.31 (best three in this group 0.256), 0.901/1.279 inches
RWS R50: 0.800/0.870, 0.547/0.910 inches

At the end of the day, it appears that the trusty old BV keeps near pace with the 64 (which surprised me)… what a bummer, because the inspiration here was to find a candidate that would clearly outperform the BV! By the looks of it, the 64 did shoot 10 to 15% smaller groups overall, but the Savage (or myself) seemed to have a habit of keeping four shots tighter in comparison, then blowing the group to heck with the fifth. In my opinion, both would be equally competitive depending on whether the driver is having a good or bad day.

At 200 yards, the BV actually outpaced the 64, however I shot at only two targets at that range, so the results were a bit messy to interpret and have a good chance at being unreliable at this point.

Happy New Year-
 
rimfires can be very fussy about the ammo they will shoot well with.

My Savage FV shoots surprisingly well with SK rifle match with best 5rds groups in the 5/8" at 100yds and a bit over 1" at 200yds. Average is more around 3/4" at 100yds and 1 1/2" at 200yds.

Feed it what it doesn't like and groups triple in size. There was a fair number of fliers with the lower cost ammo so tossing a shot now and then wouldn't surprise me.

I think ammo is the limiter for rimfire accuracy

Jerry
 
I shoot with a friend that has a Weatherby XXII. It is really an Anschutz 64 with a US made stock. I can fairly easily outshoot it with my Savage BTVS which has been bedded and trigger lightened to about 12 oz. It really is not a fair match as the Weatherby has a skinny barrel and heavy trigger. The Weatherby is a very nice looking gun though!
 
Agreed Ron... not to burst RM's bubble completely, but I've heard that Savages can be hit and miss- I still recommend them 100% on the basis of value and fairly good expectation that it'll be a shooter, but just a word of caution that there's no such thing as a sure thing. I was expecting the 64 to perform much better than it did, however, I think I can shrink the groups by 25% overall with some better technique and follow thru- I'm shooting with noticeable inconsistencies in my own performance.

RM, when you get your BV, PM me and I'll let you know how to lighten your trigger to its absolute minimum without voiding the factory warranty-

Jerry- I agree that ammo is certainly a limiting factor. There are shots every now and then that break just perfectly, and still land in left field. I have a feeling that variations in the amount of priming compound present from shell to shell has an effect on performance, hence sorting by rim thickness may be advantageous to achieving more uniform velocities, or at least may minimize dropped shots.
 
I know that anschutz can be pickey on the ammo that they like. I have one that I was not impressed with when I first tried it. It shot well but not as well as what I was expecting. So I went and tried different ammo types to see if I could tighten up my groups. I tried expensive target grade ammo and of all things that it seemed to like was winchester wildcat. The groups were much tighter at 50yards than with all of the more expecive brands of target ammo. I did not experment out at a greater distance because she is an old rifle and I refuse to drill and tap for a scope.
 
Great report.

I have a pre accutrigger Savage HB .22lr with the black synthetic stock bought used off the EE. It is so accurate it is almost boring. Not only is .22lr shooting economical it's downright fun.

2007-10-27_091302_1aCoffee.gif

NAA.
 
tikka#1 said:
I know that anschutz can be pickey on the ammo that they like. I have one that I was not impressed with when I first tried it. It shot well but not as well as what I was expecting. So I went and tried different ammo types to see if I could tighten up my groups. I tried expensive target grade ammo and of all things that it seemed to like was winchester wildcat. The groups were much tighter at 50yards than with all of the more expecive brands of target ammo. I did not experment out at a greater distance because she is an old rifle and I refuse to drill and tap for a scope.
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My friend's Weatherby is the same way. I gave him Lapua Midas, Master, Super Club, and Eley Target Rifle to try. It still seemed to shoot better with bulk Winchester Dynapoints. I'm suspecting standard target ammo speed is not a good match for the skinny barrel. However, Dynapoints have lots of flyers, so almost impossible to shoot a series of consistent groups.

One thought would be to try Lapua Polar Biathlon. It is good stuff for consistency, and has a bit higher velocity. I presume they load it a bit hotter to compensate for the colder temperatures it is typically shot in. May match the barrel better.
 
mysticplayer said:
rimfires can be very fussy about the ammo they will shoot well with.

My Savage FV shoots surprisingly well with SK rifle match with best 5rds groups in the 5/8" at 100yds and a bit over 1" at 200yds. Average is more around 3/4" at 100yds and 1 1/2" at 200yds.

Feed it what it doesn't like and groups triple in size. There was a fair number of fliers with the lower cost ammo so tossing a shot now and then wouldn't surprise me.

I think ammo is the limiter for rimfire accuracy

Jerry
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I have to agree with Jerry here. Both rifles might be tack drivers, but you'll never know just how much better one is than the other until you find the "magic" lot of whatever ammo each rifle prefers. And then you'll have some fun!

I shoot ISSF smallbore and ammo consistency is a never-ending frustration for many of us. I got lucky and bought a rifle that had been tested at RWS in Germany and am buying bricks of R50 ($130/500 rounds) from the previous owner. It's amazing stuff and I hoard it like gold.

But I got lucky and found a lot of RWS Rifle Match ($65/500 rounds) that shoots almost as well, so I use it as my practice ammo and then switch to R50 for important matches (provincials, nationals, etc.) so it lasts as long as possible. It only takes a click or two on the rearsight when I switch ammo so I'm a happy camper.

I'm not sure what I'll do once everything is gone, but I'll probably start with RWS and then go from there. At least I'll have a few years to learn how to shoot off the bench. :D

Jason
 
OT here but I really appreciate the value in Savage 22's. I gave my son his first 22 - a Savage Mk II GL. Under $220 for a left handed, bolt action rifle that appears to be of quite high quality --- I just don't think it can be beat. Heck, it's even made in Canada.
 
rimfiremac said:
Jerry- I agree that ammo is certainly a limiting factor. There are shots every now and then that break just perfectly, and still land in left field. I have a feeling that variations in the amount of priming compound present from shell to shell has an effect on performance, hence sorting by rim thickness may be advantageous to achieving more uniform velocities, or at least may minimize dropped shots.
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Given how a rimfire should lock up, I have not bothered measuring rims...but I can be stubborn with my time.

I had ALOT of those flyers and quickly dropped certain types of ammo as a mismatch to my combo.

When the ammo is correct, the barrel sings a happy tune....Which leads me to what some in rimfire BR are doing, Barrel tuners.

We can't load the ammo so let's make the barrel work with the best ammo we can afford.

There is no doubt that cheaper 'match' ammo is simply top grade ammo that didn't make the cut. As the ammo is tested, those with a higher percentage of outs, drop in grade and price.

The cream gets a fancy lable and ubber price tag.

Only thing I can suggest is to grab an assortment of whatever is on the market checking to make sure, there is case quantities available.

Found a type that works in my Savage, got a case and should be good for a couple of years of practise. Then the fun will begin again.

JasonJ, I had an old box of RWS (no other name on lable) that shot amazingly well in my Savage. Got a bunch of new stuff and none shoot well in my rifle. I know others what shoot RWS so it is so very gun specific.

Good luck with your search when your stash runs out.

Love shooting rimfire. Hunting down the right ammo is a royal PITA...

Jerry
 
mysticplayer said:
When the ammo is correct, the barrel sings a happy tune....Which leads me to what some in rimfire BR are doing, Barrel tuners.
Click to expand...

I've been pondering about this angle, and might try 'improvising' some time by adding weight to the end of the barrel to damp vibration and see if groups do tighten up. I read that some guys put rubber o-rings around the barrel near the muzzle, with positive results, but the minimal mass of the o-rings has me wondering if that attempt is more voodoo than science.
 
Ron AKA said:
My friend's Weatherby is the same way. I gave him Lapua Midas, Master, Super Club, and Eley Target Rifle to try. It still seemed to shoot better with bulk Winchester Dynapoints. I'm suspecting standard target ammo speed is not a good match for the skinny barrel. However, Dynapoints have lots of flyers, so almost impossible to shoot a series of consistent groups.

One thought would be to try Lapua Polar Biathlon. It is good stuff for consistency, and has a bit higher velocity. I presume they load it a bit hotter to compensate for the colder temperatures it is typically shot in. May match the barrel better.
Click to expand...

I would suggest to first try a more consistent high velocity ammo, such as CCI Minimag or individually boxed CCI Blazer. They've been more consistent than the bulk stuff for me, and a lot less duds. Biathlon ammo is considered super match and can be very expensive.
 
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