Scar

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TV-PressPass said:
This is the question that made me duck out when Blaxsun was selling his pre-order spot (sorry sir)
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They're definitely here in Canada (I've seen pictures). The problem is that's probably as close to seeing them as many people will ever get, because without that FRT - they're glorified paperweights... That's also why I nixed the idea of trying to sell mine - since it was dragging on forever and I didn't want to be dealing with a "are they here yet?" email every month.

If someone else wants to get onboard the SCAR train at this point, best of luck...
 
I know this has been brought up, but never resolved:

Theoretical Possibility:

I find a SCAR .308 with the 18.6" barrel. I find it either in the states or Belgium or whatever and I bring it here to this country. For the sake of making it seem plausible, lets say I (or some other foolish person) buys it in the US, puts it in the back of the truck, and drives across the border.

Technically they have broken US export laws. But are they in violation of any canadian firearms laws?

They have a legal barrel length, legal mag capacity, legally unregistered semi-auto rifle in a sporting caliber that is not listed on the prohibited list, not listed on the restricted list, and cannot be easily converted into full auto. What would be wrong with that?

How much weight does an FRT number actually have now that the long gun registry is dead?
 
TV-PressPass said:
I know this has been brought up, but never resolved:

Theoretical Possibility:

I find a SCAR .308 with the 18.6" barrel. I find it either in the states or Belgium or whatever and I bring it here to this country. For the sake of making it seem plausible, lets say I (or some other foolish person) buys it in the US, puts it in the back of the truck, and drives across the border.

Technically they have broken US export laws. But are they in violation of any canadian firearms laws?

They have a legal barrel length, legal mag capacity, legally unregistered semi-auto rifle in a sporting caliber that is not listed on the prohibited list, not listed on the restricted list, and cannot be easily converted into full auto. What would be wrong with that?

How much weight does an FRT number actually have now that the long gun registry is dead?
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The issue at the fore front of the "SCAR files" is that there is a "belief' that it can be converted to "full auto" or accept "full auto" parts specificity the "safety sear". Without a FRT you would have to "smuggle" it across the border. Smuggling firearms carries a fine and possible jail time, govern yourself accordingly.Exporting a firearm controlled under US ITAR regulations is an offence without a DOS approved export permit.

Simply thinking that you could import that firearm into Canada just because it doesn't have a FRT #, and may not fall into either the restricted or prohibited category is foolish and naive.

Pls do some more research, so you don't get arrested.
 
Thanks mildot, but I have my too-expensive black rifle need filled already. The Scar isn't on my plate, legal or otherwise.

What I'm trying to determine is the purpose of an FRT in this brave new world of ours.

Lets take a different example: imagine browning makes a special edition of the BAR in 338 win mag. They license a gas system from benelli and make some crazy hybrid that runs of the ARGO gas system of their shotguns. Demand is through the roof. They are not distributed in Canada, but one is legally exported from the US in compliance with ITAR. There is an end user license agreement that the rifle will not leave canada (This wasnt an option for the scar as too the best of my knowledge the state dept wont let them out anymore) But does the rifle have to pass through the RCMPs hands as part of the canadian import process?

There has never been a full auto version of this imaginary gun in any capacity. Barrel length, and mag capacity are all clear. It does not use an AK gas system or any component of another scary gun.

Could a person have it and own it happily without the RCMP assigning an FRT number?
 
Hell, I don't even know why I'm even bothering to make the gun semi-auto.

Lets say I get a heavily modified version of a CZ550 made in Czech Republic. It has a 7 inch barrel because I have terrible tastes, but meets the overall length requirement with its hot-pink fiberglass stock. The RCMP shouldn't have anything to say about it anymore should they? Beyond criticising my choice of gun and maybe my manliness.

As long as Mr Slovebanicknack exports his mastercrafted monstrosity legally from his country, and I pay whatever import duties Canada requires, an FRT # doesn't seem to have any role to play anymore. It used to be an important part of filing and tracking in the LGR, but now? Maybe I'm just missing something.
 
It has been discussed in other threads. A firearm that meets the Non-Restricted requirements set out by the criminal code is perfectly legal to possess and does not need to be registered.
The rcmp only job is to ensure the criminal code is followed....not make up stuff. The SCAR meets those requirements....I wonder what would have happened if the LGR went first before these were imported?? We would not even be having this discussion.
 
TV-PressPass said:
I find a SCAR .308 with the 18.6" barrel. I find it either in the states or Belgium or whatever and I bring it here to this country...
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And this is where the adventure stops, as customs seizes it and it's off the RCMP labs for several years while a determination is made to the classification and an FRT number assigned. Thank-you for playing!

Addendum: Just because you don't have to register a non-restricted firearm doesn't mean it doesn't have to be classified and on-file with the CFC first.
 
there is no law that says the firearm has to be in the FRT. the law is clear on what is or is not a Non-restricted firearm.

the FRT is not law. it is just a classification system for firearms for the RCMP. it is not prescribed prohibited, is not full auto. if the barrel length is right then there is no legal reason (Canadian side) that you cannot import one. yes i am aware of the US export stuff, just talking about the Canadian stuff.
 
P0WERWAGON said:
there is no law that says the firearm has to be in the FRT. the law is clear on what is or is not a Non-restricted firearm[/b].

the FRT is not law. it is just a classification system for firearms for the RCMP. it is not prescribed prohibited, is not full auto. if the barrel length is right then there is no legal reason (Canadian side) that you cannot import one. yes i am aware of the US export stuff, just talking about the Canadian stuff.
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Where have we heard that before... best of luck!
 
Sorry I hijacked this thread like a limo in Rio.

I think that anyone who attempted this would want to have more money set aside for the lawyer than for the gun. Like ten times more.

Despite what may seem like a solid legal basis, I think we can agree that a whole swathe of agencies would be very unhappy with this happening.

And good lord, I'd hate to piss off agencies.
 
TV-PressPass said:
Sorry I hijacked this thread like a limo in Rio.

I think that anyone who attempted this would want to have more money set aside for the lawyer than for the gun. Like ten times more.

Despite what may seem like a solid legal basis, I think we can agree that a whole swathe of agencies would be very unhappy with this happening.

And good lord, I'd hate to piss off agencies.
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You're right about the setting money aside. Also you might want to have all your incoming mail for the next couple of years forwarded to Kingston Ontario Care of the Warden.

As for it being "a solid legal basis". No actually it's not. This doesn't even qualify as rational thought.

Powerwagon's legal advice is solid providing you want to lose a ton of money on legal bills, have all your firearms seized, risk doing time in jail, have a criminal record and never own firearms legally again. If this is the case then Powerwagon's advice is right on the money.
 
Canada isnt as bad as the USA when it comes to scary "agencies" but if you start trying to illegally (think of the customs act) import rifles, and let's face it, these are assault rifles, you will very quickly become the center of someone's attention. Keep in mind the current security atmosphere involving everything from terrorism to organized crime. If I was to try and push for something to get approved for sale in Canada my best be would be to lobby both FN to hurry up and provide the information needed for approval, and the RCMP to get it done.
 
This has been a long thread to read but I would like to make a few comments.

First, there have been a lot of people complaining about having their $ 4,200 tied up for over a year. I can certainly see the point. But what about the alternatives? Would you have spent it on something else or perhaps wasted it on a bunch of crap? It does not matter, this is where you have put your money so accept it. If these rifles are approved, and from the thread it is likely they will be, if you have held on you will be able to sell it for about $10,000 or more because it is rare and not likely that any more will see our country for some time if at all.

Second, have you handled one of these? If you have then you know that they are mighty fine rifles and well worth any wait. I was just in Montana where $2,500 a drivers license and 15 minutes will get you one (don't get me started) and they are really an awesome rifle.

Third, you only have to wait. You don't have the headaches that Questar is going through. And if the rifle is not approved you get your money back. Opportunity cost...hmmmm...2 year GICs at less than 2.00% for lets say two years = $168.00 or a few cases of beer. Questar on the other hand has had plenty of time and money into this and what happens if they have to return them? Likely FNH USA is not going to offer a full refund and if they have to sell them on Gunbroker at $2,499.00 a pop it will take time and they will only earn (50 rifles x 250 per rifle) = $12,500 which likely will not even cover their costs to date.

So if I were you I would just sit tight, wait, and act when a decision is finally made. You will either make off like a bandit or you'll get your money back and be out a few cases of beer.

And to the guy talking about illegally importing one I can only say two things: I hope you don't have a family and get your head out of your ass!

Lastly, I agree completely that Questar should be providing monthly status reports to the the people who have put up the money. It does not have to be on this venue but as part of a good customer service program it would be in their best interest. First because its right and second because if the rifles do not make it through the process there are going to be 50 people with $ 4,200 each to spend and where do you think they will go depending on how they have been treated?

Kurz
 
Sounds like the firearms tech are having a hard time trying to prohibit this rifle. Make no mistake, they'll find a bs reason, just like they did with the Akdal 1919.
 
P0WERWAGON said:
there is no law that says the firearm has to be in the FRT. the law is clear on what is or is not a Non-restricted firearm.

the FRT is not law. it is just a classification system for firearms for the RCMP. it is not prescribed prohibited, is not full auto. if the barrel length is right then there is no legal reason (Canadian side) that you cannot import one. yes i am aware of the US export stuff, just talking about the Canadian stuff.
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...well you're incorrect on the "Canadian stuff" too. The RCMP happen to be the agency in charge of determining the classification of firearms in Canada. It is not up to you and your interpration of the criminal code of what is a non-restricted, restricted or prohibited firearm in Canada.

If it were only that simple!?!
 
ShooterPHD said:
The RCMP happen to be the agency in charge of determining the classification of firearms in Canada.

The RCMP assigns an identification number. They use the criminal code to determine the classification, they don't decide either.

It is not up to you and your interpretation of the criminal code of what is a non-restricted, restricted or prohibited firearm in Canada.
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Well it actually is up to us! The law is written. If we follow the law, no problem. It is also not up to the RCMP .




The comments made here are in reply to the discussion of the criminal code. They are not directed in any way to the importer/dealer of these firearms.
 
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